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Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)

 
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lh









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 12:28 am       Post subject: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
sons third birthday coming up planning his "upsheren event" Very Happy
I've been made aware that there is an issue with the little boy touching (or seeing!!??!!) women that are niddah...
does this also apply to big girls?? arent they considered niddah??
how can I exclude them(in a proper way) from my invitation to thier sibblings?

also am I right in assuming that the women I invite will refrain from touching my son if they r niddah??
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YESHASettler









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 12:41 am       Post subject:
AFAIK, Niddah only applies to married women and it is a 'state of being' only between husband and wife (and some say certain objects which we feels holds Kedusha).
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lh









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 12:47 am       Post subject: re: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
Then Y do some people seem so sure about this ??
NO women at upsheren??!!
(last I checked A women is where he comes from!! y shouldnt I be able to celebrate same way my hubby does Sad)
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YESHASettler









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 12:52 am       Post subject:
You need to be a bit more clear as to who 'some people' are...

Most likely you're talking about Minhag for specific groups and if your community 'holds' that women aren't at the Upsherin, then so be it.

I have a feeling that women are most likely not allowed to be at the Cheder when the boy is taken to see his Rebbe for the first time and they do the whole honey thing... they'll often cut one lock of hair and then later the boy will get a hair cut either at the Seudah (which has everyone in attendance) or be taken to a barber...

Find out from your community friends what the Minhag is.
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Garden-Gnome









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 1:59 am       Post subject: re: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
From what I've read, I can't find any reference to niddah at the upshernish itself.
One source I found suggests that women (of past times) would cut excessive amounts of hair and that's why they were not encouraged to cut.
However, it appears that there is a minhag not to have women in general, but especially niddah women, by the hachnasah l'cheder. The primary source is from a sefer by R' Yosef Sofer and states that niddah women did not go to meron to Rashbi's kever, and a woman about to become niddah had to distance herself from the holy place. If she didn't do so immediately, , a sudden, awful consequence took place (OK, my Hebrew's not that great, I can't understand the EXACT meaning) and everyone would need to run from that place.

THis is all from a sefer called "Yalkut Hatisporet" by R' Yosef Yitzchak Serebryanski.

I do hope this helps you, but really, go ask your Rov!
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shalhevet









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 2:12 am       Post subject:
Why don't you ask whoever told you this information for their source?

The only thing I've heard in connection with a boy's third birthday is for him not to see treif animals etc that day. Our rov actually says it's not relevant today, because it used to be the first time a child left the house, and today they've been in gan for months or years already, but of course everyone should ask their own rav.

If someone nidda shouldn't touch the child that day, maybe also someone who is tammei meis (impure from direct/ indirect contact with a dead body)? Since we all are today that would mean no party at all...

(I am not trying to make fun if there is such a hanhaga in a certain community, but just to show that just because someone says so, it doesn't mean anything. You need to check with your own rav.)
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sarahd









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 3:03 am       Post subject:
YESHASettler wrote:
AFAIK, Niddah only applies to married women and it is a 'state of being' only between husband and wife (and some say certain objects which we feels holds Kedusha).


It's my understanding that a girl/woman is a nidda from the time she gets her first period till she goes to the mikveh.
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shalhevet









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 3:10 am       Post subject:
sarahd wrote:
YESHASettler wrote:
AFAIK, Niddah only applies to married women and it is a 'state of being' only between husband and wife (and some say certain objects which we feels holds Kedusha).


It's my understanding that a girl/woman is a nidda from the time she gets her first period till she goes to the mikveh.


I think you are both right.

A girl is nidda as sarahd said. But the only practical application today (until we have a beis mikdash again) is as Yesha said. The only difference between an unmarried girl who is nidda and one who is not is the punishment for what she does, but not for practical halacha.

As I said before we are all tumei meis, so we are all (men and women) in a state of tuma regarding the Beis hamikdash, tuma v'tahara etc.
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YESHASettler









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 3:33 am       Post subject: re: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
And what happens if the boy's mother is Niddah... she has to hide from her 3 year old son, who is probably overwhelmed with what's going to happen....?
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#1cook









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 8:54 am       Post subject: Re: re: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
YESHASettler wrote:
And what happens if the boy's mother is Niddah... she has to hide from her 3 year old son, who is probably overwhelmed with what's going to happen....?


I was niddah at my first sons upsherin and I was there right up front when they cut my sons hair. I was the first to hug and kiss him when his haircut was finished and I also went to cheder.
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ChossidMom









  
Post Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 8:58 am       Post subject: re: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
I NEVER heard this one.

We are careful on the day of the boy's 3rd birthday, for him not to see anything impure outside, like a cat or non tzniyus person. That's why we wrap him in the tallis both going to cheder and coming home. My boys all stayed inside the house with the blinds down, till nightfall.

I never heard anything about a nidda not touching a 3 year old on his birthday or at his chalakeh.
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“All that is thought should not be said. All that is said should not be written. All that is written should not be published. All that is published should not be read.”
Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Kotzk
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lh









  
Post Posted: Wed, May 13 2009, 1:35 am       Post subject: re: Cutting boys hair (3yr.s old)
Thank you all so much for ur response!

From what I gather here this sounds like some sort of a minhag that got out of hand!!
still trying to get to the source for the "kicks" of it!

If anybody knows more about this I would love to hear it.

Thanx again!
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chocolate moose









  
Post Posted: Wed, May 13 2009, 9:24 am       Post subject:
By the upsherenish, my Satmar coworkers tell me tht the only female that the little boy sees all that day is the mother. I don't remember if the grandmothers attend.
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wanderer









  
Post Posted: Wed, May 13 2009, 9:59 am       Post subject:
My satmar relatives invite the entire family for their upsherins. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and even close friends and/or neighbors. I have heard of people who only invite women who are related (not friends or neighbors) but never of what the OP suggested.
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