the power in a name

greenfire

Tue, Sep 08 2009, 3:20 pm

so do you call people their proper name if it has the name of Hashem within it ...

while I don't like nicknames like on imamother related to Hashem ... one should be called by the real names that are given to a child when naming by the Torah ... I've heard there is a kabbalistic reasoning behind it ...

louche

Tue, Sep 08 2009, 7:52 pm

I call people whatever they ask me to call them, though my personal preference is to use the real name they were given.
we knew a man who davka would never clearly pronounce anyone's full name with "yahu" or 'el". Dawniel was always Dawn, Kasriel was KasREE, Yeshayahu was Shaymumble, and Eliyahu HaNavi was always Tishbi.

greenfire

Tue, Sep 08 2009, 10:40 pm

yes so I've heard in a recent conversation with someone here - so now I'm wondering why - since a name is connected to the soul ... somehow I find that more important as the name kadosh anyhow ...

ClaRivka

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 1:05 am

interesting.

I heard that ppl should be called their full given names so that when they are called up to be judged in olam haba they will be called by their full name and if they dont kno theyre full name they will not b able to defend themseslves or something....

Ruchel

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 6:13 am

I call what I'm asked to. Generally it's the first name, either the first secular name or the first Jewish one. Many times I discover other names at the chuppa. Like "Liora" was in fact Liora Lea Zahava or something.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 7:10 am

Throughout the generations, yidden, especially chassidim, didn’t always call by the proper name - the Rebbe R’ Meilech and not the Rebbe R’ Elimelech, the Bnei Yissoschor - Tzvi Elimelech was called the Rebbe R’ Hersh Meilech and the Ruzhiner Rebbe was called R’ Srultche from Ruzhin. These tzaddikim were definitely well versed in kabbalah. However, on a kesubah or a kvitel the full name is always written.

louche wrote:

This is a bit far fetched even for chassidim.

ChossidMom

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 8:25 am

louche wrote:

This is very, very weird.

louche

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 9:44 am

ChossidMom wrote:

louche wrote:

This is very, very weird.

I thought so, too. Just his shtick. Like the people who, in all seriousness, drink ginger Kale.

louche

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 11:27 am

ClaRivka wrote:

Why dont we all just have one name anyway?

Probably because we have a custom of naming children for deceased (or if you're sefaradi, living) relatives or tzadikim, and most people have more than one. When the first mother and father who couldn't decide whether to name little Ploni after his mother's father or his father's father needed to come to a decision, one of them probably said "I've got an idea, let's name him after both!"

Actually, according to tradition, many people in Tanach had multiple names reflecting the multiple facets of their characters. For example, Shlomo HaMelech's reign was a time of unusual peace (Shalom) in EY, and he's also called Yedidyah (friend of G-d) because he was very close to G-d. Yaakov Avinu was named Yaakov because he grabbed Eisav's heel, but later he was called Yisrael because "Sarita im elohim".

It's perfectly acceptable to give a child just one name, though he may feel deprived if he has no middle initial.

Atali

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 11:33 am

But yet you find many people here asking for second names to go with the name they want to use.

I think it is because non-Jews in America have unused middle names that Jews want to as well. In E"Y it seems that most people have just one.

My oldest was named for someone with two names and therefore has two, but my other two only have one.

louche

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 11:49 am

When you want to talk to a child and make it clear that he's in big trouble, roaring "Yitchak Yeshaya Friedman, come here" is much more impressive than "Yitzchak Friedman, come here." Wink

Also, in families where there are many siblings or cousins, each naming a child after their common parent or grandparent, or in close-knit communities where everyone is naming their child after the deceased rebbe, you need a way to distinguish between the children so named. This is especially important if the children all have the same surname and are close in age.

In fact, there is a whole category of surnames like Rivkis/Rivkin, Chaneles, Bashevis, and Hindis/Hindin
that arose out of the need to distinguish between people with the same given name. Imagine, if you will, our shtetl Goray. No fewer than three boys entering cheder this year are named Yitzchok. How to set them apart? Well, this one's mother is Rivke, so he becomes Yitchok Rivkis. That one's mother is Chaneleh, so he's Yitchok Chaneles. And that one, the one who tells stories, he's Yitzchok Bashevis.

louche

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 1:27 pm

greenfire wrote:

louche - I think you just made it more confusing Scratching Head

so just imagine how confusing it would be with all these little Yitzchoks running around, especially in a community where practically everyone is related, sometimes in more ways than one.

Believe me, I know. Many years ago, a man in our community had five sons. As his wife was niftar when the boys were young, each son named his firstborn daughter after his mother. There were five count 'em five Esther Frieds in the school, all born within about three years. It was a bit of a mess, but fortunately each Esther had a different middle initial, except for the oldest who was just plain Esther. The others were called Esther E, Esther D, Esther M and Esther C, which came out as Esteree, Estherdee, Estherem and Esthercee, not to be confused with Ester-C, a brand-name Vitamin C supplement that didn't exist at the time.

Don't ask me why the teachers didn't call them EstherChana, EstherMalka, EstherDevora and EstherElka, b/c I have no idea.

Eventually all the Esthers got married and moved to different cities, which made life much simpler.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Wed, Sep 09 2009, 3:00 pm

louche wrote:

ClaRivka wrote:

Why dont we all just have one name anyway?

Already in the beginning of time they had two names as Tuval Kayin, brother of Rebbetzin Noach, Naama.