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Faith



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smilethere




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 5:58 am
Nice email I got, read through till the end it's worth it:

INTERESTING CONVERSATION

An Atheist Professor of Philosophy speaks to his Class on the Problem Science has with G-D, The ALMIGHTY.
He asks one of his New Christian Students to stand and .
. ..
Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, boy ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So you Believe in G-D ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is G-D Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is G-D ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to G-D to Heal him. Most of us would attempt to Help Others who are ill. But G-D didn't. How is this G-D Good then ? Hmm ?( Student is silent )
Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella.Is G-D Good ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Student : No.
Professor :
Where does Satan come from ?
Student : From . . . G-D . . ..
Professor : That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this World ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And G-D did make Everything. Correct ?
Student : Yes
Professor : So who created evil ? ( Student does not answer )
Professor : Is there Sickness ? Immorality ? Hatred ? Ugliness ? All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?
( Student has no answer )
Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen G-D ?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your G-D ?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your G-D, Tasted your G-D, Smelt your G-D ? Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of G-D for that matter ?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your G-D doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son ?
Student : Nothing. I only have my Faith.
Professor : Yes. Faith. And that is the Problem Science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as Heat ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as Cold ?
Professor : Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.
( The Lecture Theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events )
Student : Sir, you can have Lots of Heat, even More Heat, Superheat, Mega Heat, White Heat, a Little Heat or No Heat. But we don't have anything called Cold. We can hit 458 Degrees below Zero which is No Heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as Cold. Cold is only a Word we use to describe the Absence of Heat. We cannot Measure Cold. Heat is Energy. Cold is Not the Opposite of Heat, sir, just the Absence of it.
( There is Pin - Drop Silence in the Lecture Theatre )
Student : What about Darkness, Professor ? Is there such a thing as Darkness ?
Professor : Yes. What is Night if there isn't Darkness ?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the Absence of Something. You can have Low Light, Normal Light ,Bright Light, Flashing Light . . . But if you have No Light Constantly, you have Nothing and it's called Darkness, isn't it ? In reality, Darkness isn't. If it is, were you would be able to make Darkness Darker, wouldn't you ?
Professor : So what is the point you are making, Young Man ?
Student : Sir, my point is your Philosophical Premise is Flawed.
Professor : Flawed ? Can you explain how ?
Student : Sir, you are working on the Premise of Duality. You argue there is Life and then there is Death, a Good G-D and a Bad G-D. You are viewing the Concept of G-D as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a Thought. It uses Electricity and Magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view Death as the Opposite of Life is to be ignorant of the fact that Death cannot exist as a Substantive Thing. Death is Not the Opposite of Life : just the Absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you Teach your Students that they Evolved from a Monkey ?
Professor : If you are referring to the Natural Evolutionary Process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed Evolution with your own eyes, sir ?
( The Professor shakes his head with a Smile, beginning to realize where the Argument is going )
Student : Since no one has ever observed the Process of Evolution at work and cannot even prove that this Process is an On - Going Endeavor, are you not Teaching your Opinion, sir ? Are you not a Scientist but a Preacher ?
( The Class is in Uproar )
Student : Is there anyone in the Class who has ever Seen the Professor's Brain ?
( The Class breaks out into Laughter )
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever Heard the Professor's Brain, Felt it, Touched or Smelt it ? . . ..No one appears to have done so. So, according to the Established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have No Brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then Trust your Lectures, sir ?
( The Room is Silent. The Professor stares at the Student, his face unfathomable )
Professor : I guess you'll have to take them on Faith, son.
Student : That is it sir . . . the Link between Man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that Keeps Things Moving & Alive.
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oodlesofnoodles




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 7:22 am
Enjoyed reading this! Thanks for posting!
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chicco




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 12:19 pm
It is cute and all, but the student did not answer his set of questions well. The fact that G-d created evil, death, etc... does not take away from that fact that He is good. If anything it emphasizes it. He made no effort to make that point.

Faith/believing in G-d etc does not have to mean ignoring things that don't make sense to you. It makes you question in order to understand greater. If one approaches the situation with the intent of getting towards truth, it is possible, and there are no contradictory scenarios. Contradiction is a sign that something in your logic is flawed. Addressing it makes you understand/appreciate and ultimately honestly believe.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 12:28 pm
the believer has to explain the existence of evil. the non-believer has to explain the existence of everything else.

But make no mistake, the believer does not have any easier of a job.
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chicco




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 1:35 pm
The believer should not have a hard time explaining explaining his belief if he understands why it is real and true. True things are simple and real. That is part of what attests to their validity.
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rydys




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 9:41 pm
Notice this is a Christian student the professor was asking. One of the basic tenets of christianity is faith. They actively discourage questioning and searching for truth, they preach that one should just believe and that is enough.
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 10:10 pm
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0vzGJAg1aw
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 07 2009, 11:05 pm
chicco wrote:
The believer should not have a hard time explaining explaining his belief if he understands why it is real and true. True things are simple and real. That is part of what attests to their validity.


Have you ever read Moreh Nevuchim? Learned a ma'amer? Studied Rav Soloveitchik's works?
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chicco




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2009, 8:57 am
marina wrote:
chicco wrote:
The believer should not have a hard time explaining explaining his belief if he understands why it is real and true. True things are simple and real. That is part of what attests to their validity.


Have you ever read Moreh Nevuchim? Learned a ma'amer? Studied Rav Soloveitchik's works?


No. Do they disagree with me?
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entropy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 13 2009, 5:15 am
The Moreh Nevuchim approach is about that the truth is too complex for most people, and you should not even attempt to explain it to the public.

That said, I think chicco's approach is compatible with MN, because it is easier to defend truth to an inquisitive teacher that it is to defend a faith. ("teacher's brain" type apologetics notwithstanding)

True answers to the teacher:

Professor : So you Believe in G-D ?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Professor : Is G-D Good ?
Student : Sure.
Professor : Is G-D ALL - POWERFUL ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : My Brother died of Cancer even though he Prayed to G-D to Heal him. Most of us would attempt to Help Others who are ill. But G-D didn't. How is this G-D Good then ? Hmm ?( Student is silent )
Professor : You can't answer, can you
Jewish student: That's right, I can't answer for God. I am sorry to hear about your loss, May God send comfort to your grieving family.


Professor : You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, Young Fella.Is G-D Good ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : Is Satan good ?
Jewish Student : Yes he is, Satan brings forth our sins to be judged before God. He challenges us be better people.



Professor : Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And G-D did make Everything. Correct ?
Student : Yes
Professor : So who created evil ? ( Student does not answer )
Professor : Is there Sickness ? Immorality ? Hatred ? Ugliness ? All these terrible things exist in the World, don't they ?
Student : Yes, sir.
Professor : So, who Created them ?
Student : God created everything, good and bad. Neither has meaning without the other. We have no free will, no purpose and no value in a world that doesn't contain a struggle between good and bad.

Professor : Science says you have 5 Senses you use to Identify and Observe the World around you.Tell me, son . . . Have you ever Seen G-D ?
Student : No, sir.
Professor : Tell us if you have ever Heard your G-D ?
Student : No , sir.
Professor : Have you ever Felt your G-D, Tasted your G-D, Smelt your G-D ? Have you ever had any Sensory Perception of G-D for that matter ?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Professor : Yet you still Believe in HIM ?
Student : Yes.
Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your G-D doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son ?
Student : That's right, God has no physical existence for us to perceive; His existence transcends anything science can measure. We can, however, learn about his ways by perceiving his creations.
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