Why do(n't) you live in Eretz Yisrael?

amother

Thu, Jun 08 2006, 12:23 pm

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For me it would be pointless moving to a different country where I don't have friends and family (and don't even speak the language). Especially since I'm happy with my life here and see no reason to move anywhere at this time.

DefyGravity, I generally like your posts but I don't understand, doing mitzvas are not always easy! anyway maybe some thoughts from gedolim will convince you to think again. This doesen't mean I do not sympathize with you, sure it's hard to move home in the same country, but maybe it is worth it...lets see...

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"Anyone who has the ability to come to Eretz Yisrael and does not, will have to account for his failure in the future world." Rabbi Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, HaIsh Al HaChoma vol. 2, p. 149.

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It seems to me, in our present peaceful existence outside the Land of Israel, that we have found another Eretz Yisrael and Jerusalem; this to me, is the greatest, deepest and most obvious and direct cause of all the awesome, frightening monstrous, unimaginable destruction that we have experienced in the Diaspora." Rabbi Yaacov Emden, (The Ya'avetz) in his Siddur Beit Yaacov, p. 13

JRKmommy

Tue, Jun 13 2006, 11:18 am

JRKmommy wrote:

Cindy324 - Have you actually done the research to find out whether Israel is in fact more dangerous than Brooklyn?

The stuff that I was reading on the racism thread about Crown Heights really makes me wonder. I've been to Israel 7 times, and we were able to walk around at night all over the country.

Is terrorism scary? Of course it is! In April, 2004, when I was preg., we took our 4 yr old and 1 yr old to Israel a few days after Israel had killed Yassin and Hamas was vowing bloody revenge. I was our first visit since April, 2000, because we had been scared off by the second Intifada. During that time, dh's aunt and grandmother passed away. My kids see pictures of them, but my oldest dd cries that she misses her great-grandmother and feels bad that she was only a baby when she saw her. Terrorism doesn't work by killing everyone off - it works by making ordinary people so scared that it interferes with life. For our family, that fear took away the opportunity for my kids to see their relatives.

Was I nervous during that trip in 2004 - yes. My mother thought I was nuts, and went to Montreal for Pesach. We had a great time in Israel, spent Pesach with a religious group on a gorgeous kibbutz in the north, the kids saw tons of their family, and everything was fine. On the news, however, I heard that a Jewish Day School in Montreal had been firebombed. So, I don't think that anywhere is necessarily "safe". They caught the guy behind the attack on the school in Montreal, but gave him a slap on the wrist sentence so he's now out on parole! My dh and I are constantly aware that there really isn't any security here - it would be incredibly easy to attack the Jewish community here because we're complacent. We know that there are Al Queda supporters here. We know that they have been plotting things against the Jewish community (they got evidence, for example, from Ressem aka the Millenium Bomber).

I know it's weird to be quoting myself, but I reread my prev quote after reading some really, really scary stuff happened here.

Basically, they arrested 17 young Muslim men on terrorism charges in Toronto. I know that the media can blow things out of proportion, but the stuff that's coming out is so scary. They know that there were plans to target major skyscrapers and landmarks in Toronto. They know that the explosives would have been more powerful that those used in the Oklahoma City bombing. They were analyzing what would have happened if the financial core in downtown Toronto would have been hit - it would have been like another 9/11. And still, we are so used to living in peace and security in Canada that there hasn't been a real increase in security measures. I wish I could just tell myself that I'm paranoid, but I can't. At least in Israel, you know where the enemy is, and all the security precautions are taken.

amother

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 3:45 am

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If there would be a Jewish government, Jews will not be killed. So of course make a Jewish government!

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Ive never heard this before and sounds very contrary to what ive ever learned.
is this conversation is written down? where can I find it?

This was GR's post above, there is also a post by CRAYON who called this or a similar view Avoda Zara, Crayon if you want find it or I can but I have no time to look for it now. But this is in reply to GR and CRAYON

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"A man is safer in a pit filled with scorpions and snakes in the Land of Israel, than in the opulent palaces of a foreign land. Safer, in apparent physical danger in the Land of Israel, than in circumstances which appear physically secure outside the Land." Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin, from his comments on the Talmud Sanhedrin 6, on the matter of Joseph being thrown into the pit. "

AND

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"You shall dwell in safety in your land" In your own land, you may dwell in safety, outside your land, there is no safety for you." The Yalkut on Leviticus 25:18.

I think either one of these answers the question quite clearly, theres more if desired.

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shalhevet

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 6:03 am

amother wrote:

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If there would be a Jewish government, Jews will not be killed. So of course make a Jewish government!

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AND

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"You shall dwell in safety in your land" In your own land, you may dwell in safety, outside your land, there is no safety for you." The Yalkut on Leviticus 25:18.

This tells us why it is safer to live in ERETZ YISRAEL (which we are also told is 'the land where Hashem's eyes are upon from the beginning of the year until the end of the year'.

But it says nothing about who should be in government.

Esther01

Sun, Jun 25 2006, 8:36 pm

not always is a decision of where to live done according to what is safe and where you have friends and family.
my parents lived in israel for 10 years, I was born there, then they moved to america for parnassah reasons, but they still talk about moving there and always go to visit.
before I got married, since I grew up with such love for israel I said that a guy that doesn't want to live in israel is just not my bashert...
B"H I got married to a wonderful man and we moved to israel right after our wedding. my husband just did not like it there. as much as I loved it thats how much he hated it. I tried so hard to make it the best place to live but he couldnt take the mentality, the weather, and the traveling (coming to america for pesach or simchas) we moved back after 2 years.
we are happily married in NY...
I still dream about visiting israel (but its a major expence) but I dont dream anymore of living there cuz I know how depressed my dh will be and for me a happy man is more important......

amother

Mon, Jun 26 2006, 4:26 am

GR - I'm the amother who posted that story. I don't have a written source but I got some clarification from the person who told it to me, who heard it from Rabbi Posner directly. Basically it was the time that the British were going to leave anyway. So there were two choices - either don't do anything and be killed, or form your own government and protect yourself. So the Frierdiker Rebbe said, of course save Jewish lives!

(Now, as I'm typing, I'm realizing that I forgot the exact words that I tried to memorize. So iy'h next time I get a chance, I'll ask my source again.)