moving during shmone esre if a kid falls?

micki

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 12:03 am

Kayza wrote:

micki wrote:

hey why you getting (to borrow a word) snarky?
what gave you this impression?

Because the question implies either that you can't step out of SE for a danger or that someone (never mid a child) falling down the stairs does not constitute a serious danger.

well you misunderstood- forget the circumstance, I wanted to know what halacha says is to be done regarding a dangerous situation in front of you.

I must have slept thru the halacha class that discussed this, about how even for anything that is distracting you, you should step out.

perhaps I should brush up on these halachos!

kalsee

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 1:56 am

Besiyata Dishmaya wrote:

Talking about stepping out in middle of Shemone Esre, I always want to ask my husband but keep forgetting, I wonder if you're allowed to pick a chumash/siddur/sefer/sheimos if it falls to the floor? And what about in middle of Keddushah?

You don't have to go pick it up, but if it's ruining your concentration you may pick it up.

Kayza

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 9:00 am

[quote="micki"]

Kayza wrote:

Which goes back to my original response. The class did bring the principle - which seem to have been lost somewhere - that you step out of Shmone Esrei for something dangerous.

In general, Pikuach Nefesh is doche EVERYTHING except for Avoda Zara, Shfichas Damin and Giluy Arayos, by the way.

louche

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 12:27 pm

micki wrote:

Quote:

that you step out of Shmone Esrei for something dangerous.

well what throws me off is - how do you define dangerous. halacha does say if a snake is wrapped around you, you do not move. but if a scorpion is about to bite then you don't.

B/c snakes strike at moving objects. If you are walking down the road and meet a snake, FREEZE. Hopefully you'll be of no interest and it'll go away. Of course, if you're Michael Douglas in Romancing the Stone, your warp-speed reflexes will allow you to unsheath your machete and lop off its head before it's even registered that you blinked.

The question is, what will the snake do if you're shuckling?

Kayza

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 8:11 pm

micki wrote:

Quote:

that you step out of Shmone Esrei for something dangerous.

well what throws me off is - how do you define dangerous. halacha does say if a snake is wrapped around you, you do not move. but if a scorpion is about to bite then you don't.

Clearly, it's not talking about a poisonous snake. If it were a poisonous snake, you would step out of Shmone esrei as well.

Dangerous, as defined by halacha, is something that could cause death or serious injury (eg the loss of a limb).

louche

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 8:44 pm

Kayza wrote:

micki wrote:

Quote:

that you step out of Shmone Esrei for something dangerous.

well what throws me off is - how do you define dangerous. halacha does say if a snake is wrapped around you, you do not move. but if a scorpion is about to bite then you don't.

and a venomous snake causes... acne? bad hair? Clearly, it IS talking about a venomous snake because venomous snakes strike at things that MOVE. How do I know this? A herpetology lecture and demonstration at the municipal zoo. The herpetologist held inflated balloons motionless at the end of a long, long rod. (The snakes had been milked of venom , but you don't want their fangs in you even so.) He moved just a bit----and BAM! you couldn't even see the snake move, it was so fast. If you tried to "step out", the snake would have sunk its fangs into you before your foot left the ground.

So if a venomous snake has you in its coils, freeze. say tehillim in your head but don't move a muscle. eventually, BSD it will see something more interesting moving around and it'll mosey along and leave you alone.

I confess to total ignorance of the hunting habits of scorpions.

Raizle

Tue, Oct 12 2010, 11:39 pm

louche wrote:

Kayza wrote:

micki wrote:

Quote:

that you step out of Shmone Esrei for something dangerous.

well what throws me off is - how do you define dangerous. halacha does say if a snake is wrapped around you, you do not move. but if a scorpion is about to bite then you don't.

A scrorpion will bite someone in their sleep so yeah, I'd say get away.
the reason why the snake will move on if you keep still according to google is because they have short memories or concentration span and will forget about you and move on.

Kayza, you should read the replies before yours

amother

Wed, Oct 13 2010, 12:33 am

Honestly, I believe I try to be a G-d fearing Jew, but if anyone told me that the halacha says that its more important to daven Shemonah Esrei then tend to my child who just fell down the stairs... well sorry but my child is priority, I don't care what any rabbi or halacha tells me to do. The G-d that I pray to and who watches over me, would not want me to choose praying to Him over the safety of my child.

Raizle

Wed, Oct 13 2010, 3:25 am

amother wrote:

um...did you even read the responses on this thread? Halacha DOES care about your kids safety for goodness sake!

Kayza

Thu, Oct 14 2010, 12:17 am

louche wrote:

Kayza wrote:

Either you are talking about a situation where the the only way to get rid of the danger is to stay till, or you are talking about non-poisonous (which is the same thing as venomous, or course) snake. In short, you stay still not for some esoteric reason, but because this is a situation where moving does not essentially improve safety. With scorpions, neither choice exists, so you move. Same goes for a kid falling down the stairs.