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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
WWYD- Give a HORRIBLE Rebbi a Chanukah present, or else....
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TehillaHadassah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 12:58 am
OP, I'm too bold and I will probably draw someone on me. But by accident I brought to someone's house for Shabbos flowers that I was holding upside down on the way to deliver before Shabbos. I was so distracted by a case I was on I didn't realize what I had done. When we got to our host home that evening, the flowers were displayed in a vase. MOST of the flowers had fallen off and the vase was full of stems. embarrassed I could hardly speak all evening. I loved that family with all I am.
So I am inspired to suggest you give a little menorah with all the candles wicks cut off. A box of matches with the tips snapped off and a little letter about all the light he has brought to your family through the year, a berry freilchen cha-cha-nuk-a!~
BTW that was my belated gife to the Rebbes I should have gifted as such.
And I think we are allowed to compliment the wicked so schmear away.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 1:35 am
worlds best mom, I disagree. contrary to our cultural beliefs, TIPPING IS NOT MANDATORY. it is a gift that is given to someone who deserves it. we should not tip a person who does not deserve it. thats what payment or salary is for!! thats why we pay tuition!
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 1:45 am
sequoia wrote:
Thanks for the support, Dr. Mom.

OP, is it not an option? I mean, you have to appease and bribe him so he won't torment your son even more than he already does. Doesn't sound like a healthy situation for your son. Children are vulnerable whether or not they appear to be.


Reading the other responses (except for yours), I feel like I must be from another planet. I'm thinking: Some guy is tormenting your child, and you're worried about what kind of present to get him???

Some other people said not to tip him or to get him a lousy present. How does that help? A sociopath will not look at a low tip as a cue to examine his own performance/behavior. He will just think badly of you, and possibly make your son's situation worse.

Do what you can in the short term to not make your son's life worse, even if that means giving some token gift. In the meantime, formulate an exit strategy.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 6:37 am
DrMom wrote:
sequoia wrote:
Thanks for the support, Dr. Mom.

OP, is it not an option? I mean, you have to appease and bribe him so he won't torment your son even more than he already does. Doesn't sound like a healthy situation for your son. Children are vulnerable whether or not they appear to be.


Reading the other responses (except for yours), I feel like I must be from another planet. I'm thinking: Some guy is tormenting your child, and you're worried about what kind of present to get him???

Some other people said not to tip him or to get him a lousy present. How does that help? A sociopath will not look at a low tip as a cue to examine his own performance/behavior. He will just think badly of you, and possibly make your son's situation worse.

[color=red]Do what you can in the short term to not make your son's life worse, even if that means giving some token gift. In the meantime, formulate an exit strategy.
[/color

OP here- I kid you not that despite where I live and the abundance of Yeshivas, if I would change DS's school, there would be another Rebbi like this one in 1-2 years from now in that other Yeshiva- so what would I do then- switch him again over and over?

Again because of the No firing policy which exists ACROSS THE BOARD in any Yeshiva, except for I guess/ I hope physically abusing a child, no one in any Yeshiva cares.
And the Rebbis know it.
And they take full advantage of it.
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JC




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 6:38 am
AlwaysGrateful wrote:
JC wrote:
I think you are all off the mark, why give a monetary gift?

I think these a gift basket with these (or other) books may be more appropriate

How To Talk So Kids Can Learn
http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk.....r=8-1
Positive Discipline in the Classroom, Revised 3rd Edition: Developing Mutual Respect, Cooperation, and Responsibility in Your Classroom
http://www.amazon.com/Positive.....m_b_5
Discipline Without StressĀ® Punishments or Rewards: How Teachers and Parents Promote Responsibility & Learning
http://www.amazon.com/Discipli.....m_b_5


I love this idea! OP, what do you think?

I see OP nixed the idea, and while I love the idea I agree it would not be taken well by the Rebbe in question.

OTOH they would make a wonderful parting gift, as I would never let my kids stay in a class where I felt that way about his teacher.

I agree with those that say give you child a gift and get him out of that school!!!!!
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JC




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 6:45 am
Then change him every few years... that will teach the school after you actually do it once or twice, that if they want your $ they find him a better teacher.

You just need to explain to your kid that your doing it because he deserves more and deserves a loving environment. Just like you expect him to do his best and treat others with respect you expect others to do the same. How can you grow up respecting the Torah way when your Rebbe shows no respect.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 7:23 am
OP: Is your opinion about the yeshivas in your area shared by many other parents in the community?

If so, why don't you speak up??? Organize the other parents. Speak to the principal. You are PAYING to send your children here.

These rebbes are supposed to be role models and mentors, not tormentors.

As for the present (which should be the least of your concerns): Get together w/all the other parents and make a group tzeddaka donation. That way he gets nothing.
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sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 7:39 am
There is a psak to the effect that after a certain number of years a rebbe has in effect acquired tenure, so he can't be fired.

I guess this is the reason that the rebbe dh had 35 years ago who tormented him and his brothers is still tormenting my nephews (and anyone else whose parents don't bribe him by hiring him to tutor their kids.)
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JC




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 8:01 am
sarahd wrote:
There is a psak to the effect that after a certain number of years a rebbe has in effect acquired tenure, so he can't be fired.

I guess this is the reason that the rebbe dh had 35 years ago who tormented him and his brothers is still tormenting my nephews (and anyone else whose parents don't bribe him by hiring him to tutor their kids.)


Where is that barf emoticon....

Would you pull him out if they hired a female teacher who wore low cut shirts and miniskirt, sure you could consider it harmful to your child, even more so a mean teacher is harmful to your children.

Seriously, if its bec of parnassa and not being able to fire them, have the lousy teachers making photocopies and being assistants in other classrooms - but our children's neshamot ARE more important than the 'honor' of a bitter old teacher.

Better yet gather the class moms and all threaten to transfer to the other school for the year, that will force them to find another person to teach the class. The dont want to fire him thats ok as long as he is NOT teaching your child

Honestly I know I am MO but I just dont even get this (and I am sure many dont get the on the charadi side either)
PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN!!!
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 8:07 am
Dh and I are both teachers, dh has 13 years of classroom Rebbe under his belt. I can tell you that YES, we rememeber who gave what when, especially if we had a sibling, wed kinda expect a similar gift (or lack of a gift. )

We were both teachers "out of town", where this culture of gift giving, or "tipping" wasnt quite the same as Im reading here. Ive gotten lots of mugs, lots of bath and body works stuff, and a lot of Target gift cards. Never any cash gifts.

I totatlly understand why teachers need the cash - we get paid peanuts! But why is it the job of the parents to make up for it? Im saying this from both sides, a teacher and a parent. It is just not right for any teacher to come in with that attatude.

Having said that, a possible solution for this problem, if all the parent body in your kids class have issues with him, is to get together and give a lump sum with a card listing all the contributers. This way you can give less, you still get your "bribe" across, and you dont have to feel quite as ticked about it. Then the parents have to agree not to also give an individual gift.

Also, how is it the case that across the board that you have to live with such rabbaim. If that really is the case, why are you there? You want your kid to be abused every day? Smells like Brooklyn to me!
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tovasara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 9:01 am
My son had a pretty bad Rebbe last year. So I think a lot has to do with what you find horrible about him. If he's just a bad Rebbe and should have retired years ago but can't because he doesn't have a pension - then I say the following: You are going to come across both good and bad Rabbeim in your kids' school life, this year you have bad, tip him something appropriate (does not have to be as much as other Rebbe's). My thinking is that he's still your son's Rebbe and you want your son to have some sort of respect/feeling toward him.

If he's abusive (verbally, emotionally, physically), I would have a much different opinion.

I know it's easy to say switch schools, but having looked at other schools due to a variety of problems in my sons' school, we are still there.

I'm not just talking, this was my last year's experience and I did send a chanukah gift (and a pesach gift) out of respect that he's my son's rebbe. Believe me, underneath I have ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for him, but I tried hard not to let my son know that. I definitely did not give as big a chanukah gift to him as I did to the Rebbe the year before who was a gem.

I think that especially if your son is the one who hands the envelope to him, you need to send something so your son won't feel like he's the only one not giving.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 10:06 am
I am a teacher in a popular boys yeshiva. I cannot tell you the amount of complaints I have gotten over the years from my poor innocent students. The rebbi in the morning is beyond abusive. I'm sure that 50 years ago, he was an ok rebbi - BUT HE HAS DONE HIS TIME!!!!!! He no longer belongs in a classroom! The kids complain, the parents complain, heck I WENT TO THE MENAHEL TO COMPLAIN on behalf of my students. Mothers, sweet dear mothers, IT IS UP TO YOU!!!!!!! Keep your sons home TOGETHER! All of you! Don't pay tuition! Do whatever you have to, but DON't let your son stay in a classroom with an abusive rebbe for an entire year. It will take many more years to undo damage that this man is capable of doing in a few hours. (Oh, and by the way, I'm not talking about physical abuse)
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shlomitsmum




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 10:10 am
fantasy ....

Teacher would get a generic card with no cash just pareve thanks.
My child would get $100 for putting up with such a psycho.

We don't give money ,we pay tuition to the best of our ability...
In the past his rebbis have gotten , gift cards to seforim stores , or grocery stores (to be used to help for yom tov or emergencies like when they don't get paid... ), or when we did not have much a nice silk shabbos tie DS picked out .

ALL Rebbis called to thank us ,and in the case of the grocery card ,the wife of the Rebbi call to let us know how grateful she was and how it had fed the kids during yet another dry month it was only $100 but we did not have much to give embarrassed .
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maofboys




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 11:00 am
JC wrote:
Then change him every few years... that will teach the school after you actually do it once or twice, that if they want your $ they find him a better teacher.

You just need to explain to your kid that your doing it because he deserves more and deserves a loving environment. Just like you expect him to do his best and treat others with respect you expect others to do the same. How can you grow up respecting the Torah way when your Rebbe shows no respect.



I am sorry but I stongly disagree - switching your ds's school every two years is very unealthy. you can't just quit when things get tough and you can't uproot him from his friends and an environment he is already familiar with. I agree with dr. mom you need to give the teacher a gift, and make him like you and your family. stroke his ego and make him think he is a good teacher so he doesn't tell next years teacher you son is no smart or a trouble maker. this is helping your son. sometimes even when your right you have to give in, because it is not about being right it is about getting the result you want. If you skip the gift, copmplain... then what will the result be. A hard difficult year for your son and maybe next year too.
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shmoozer




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 11:37 am
my son had a terrible rebbe last year - everyone has a bad experience with him. I didn't! I can't say it was the most amazing year full of growth and happiness... but he definitely was nicer to my son than a lot of other boys.
you're saying that he is obnoxious, not only to your son, but to everyone. so GIVE HIM A TIP!!!! that's the only way. we kept on giving this rebbe $. We knew that he is here to stay, and that the only way we will get thru to him is through his pocket.
my theory is: there is a reason why shoched is not allowed in din torah - cuz it talks!!
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amother


 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 11:42 am
sarahd wrote:
There is a psak to the effect that after a certain number of years a rebbe has in effect acquired tenure, so he can't be fired.

I guess this is the reason that the rebbe dh had 35 years ago who tormented him and his brothers is still tormenting my nephews (and anyone else whose parents don't bribe him by hiring him to tutor their kids.)


Tell that to my brother's yeshiva because they don't seem to think so. 9 kids and a job hanging by a thread...
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 11:43 am
shmoozer wrote:
he is obnoxious, not only to your son, but to everyone. so GIVE HIM A TIP!!!!


Just can't compute.

If he stinks, and the school doesn't care about chinuch, I would rather even homeschool or send to a clean public school. At least the kid won't come to "hate rebbes". Too many went off the derech for it.
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sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 10 2010, 2:15 pm
JC wrote:
sarahd wrote:
There is a psak to the effect that after a certain number of years a rebbe has in effect acquired tenure, so he can't be fired.

I guess this is the reason that the rebbe dh had 35 years ago who tormented him and his brothers is still tormenting my nephews (and anyone else whose parents don't bribe him by hiring him to tutor their kids.)


Where is that barf emoticon....

Would you pull him out if they hired a female teacher who wore low cut shirts and miniskirt, sure you could consider it harmful to your child, even more so a mean teacher is harmful to your children.



In my dh's days there was only one Jewish school in the city. Also, my FIL could afford to have his kids tutored by this _________, so eventually they became the teacher's pets, which was no less nauseating to them.
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