Rally in Silver Spring this Sunday to help free an agunah

Leahh

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 8:18 pm

The Gemara in Berachos page 33b says that if one davens and says your mercy extends to the birds nest … we silence him…because he is making the Mitzvos into acts of mercy while in truth they are nothing other then decrees.
If no Bais Din has ordered Aharon to give a Get who is anyone to say he should. The laws of Hashem are decrees and decrees only. Not Moral not Compassion just DECREES. If anyone thinks otherwise – the Gemara clearly states we silence him. Just remember Apikorsus is a lot worse than not giving a Get.

Leahh

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 8:20 pm

Its very sad that not a single person who commented here knows both sides of the story and yet everyone is jumping to say he is the one in the wrong. Learn the facts! Speak to people involved, that know the whole story from both sides, before you jump to conclusions!
And ORA, the organization that is arranging the rally, only knows ONE side of the story! Call them and challenge them to tell you ALL the facts from both sides. They won't be able to.

sky

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 8:57 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

sky wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

sky wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

Chayalle wrote:

Except it seems (from the details posted) that the courts did not take the man's religious needs into account.

Then that's between him, his lawyer, her lawyer and the judge. Holding the get over her head is wrong on many levels.

but why isn't keeping a child away from a father wrong on so many levels. Or even worse.

The court determined a custody agreement. If he isn't satisfied he should appeal it not use the get as a leverage tool.

MommyZ I was thinking a lot about such scenrios over shabbos. And if G-d Forbid it would ever happen to me that I was threatened to not be able to see my children I would do anything humanly possible to see them and prevent that from happening. Wouldn't you?

Really? You'd do anything? Would you kill someone? Maim someone?
I don't think so.

And as a society, we are obligated to prevent you from "doing anything". As a society, we cannot tolerate people "doing anything" to achieve a goal, even one as noble as this.

Withholding a get as a way to gain leverage is blackmail, and we must deem it unacceptable as a society. Even as we try to understand the pain of those who do it.

**** And as an aside, we don't whether this whole custody thing is true, and to what extent if any it plays a part in his decision to blackmail his ex-wife. If shabbos was the issue, why wasn't it raised during the custody hearing? ***********

I don't know the story, and am not taking sides. Just thinking out such a scenerio.

but if someone were to G-d Forbid withhold me from seeing my children I would use the get as blackmail for that. Would you? Maybe I'm just being too honest here, but that is how I feel.

As a society shouldn't we also insist that a father be allowed access to his child.

If you rally for one shouldn't the other side also be rallied for. At least have equal treatment.

MommyZ

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 8:59 pm

sky wrote:

Peanut2 wrote:

sky wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

sky wrote:

MommyZ wrote:

Chayalle wrote:

Except it seems (from the details posted) that the courts did not take the man's religious needs into account.

Then that's between him, his lawyer, her lawyer and the judge. Holding the get over her head is wrong on many levels.

but why isn't keeping a child away from a father wrong on so many levels. Or even worse.

The court determined a custody agreement. If he isn't satisfied he should appeal it not use the get as a leverage tool.

The father has legal recourse to which he may avail himself. The mother is stuck if the beis din takes his side so no I don't think both sides are equal. If she had the right to give him a get just as much as he had the right to give her a get and both were withholding the get then I would understand having two rallies. With that said I think when the father is capable of having a healthy and productive parental relationship it should be encouraged but I don't think think that the get should be used in this manner.

sequoia

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 9:08 pm

Leahh wrote:

The rabbis of the beit din are not speaking for Hashem. They are just humans. They may be misled, bribed, prejudiced, or just evil. It's possible, and you know that.

smilingmom

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 10:02 pm

Leahh wrote:

We don't claim to know the whole story. Only two people in a divorce do. Those are the couple themselves.
We all all positiing our thougts and questins on the matter, not specifically regarding this couple, but rather on the issues, which unfortunately we see too often in the frum community?

Hashem_Yaazor

Sat, Dec 18 2010, 10:09 pm

I cannot believe this thread is allowed up here, discussing nitty gritty of people's lives.

But FTR, being in the general area, even if not in SS, I asked my husband what is the right response, and he said you go by what the rabbonim of the community say. R' Shmuel Kamenetzky is a gadol, and from Philly, where one party is. Getora has an agenda. You have to go by what the bais din and vaad harobannim who are involved in the case say. And for now they are saying no achrayus for him to give a get.

Who is right and who is wrong is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

In terms of going to the rally on Sunday, it's pretty clear to me (mind you, my husband has had a relationship with the mesader gittin in Baltimore, so he knows what he speaks of) that we should stay out of the situation unless the local rabbonim say to.