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What is considered a good salary in London or other Uk city?
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Nov 06 2011, 4:02 pm       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
OP here.

This is all really helpful, thank you so much for all the responses!

I have lived in Golders Green for a short time in the past but my circumstances were very different then (I was single, working and lodging with a family) so there are a lot of things we need to consider now that I did not consider at that time.

We wouldn't mind living in the Golders Green/ Hendon area but realise that that area is very expensive so depending on what kind of job my DH could get and how much we would need to live, other areas may be more suitable.

Out of interest, roughly how much are the contributions to Jewish state schools?
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shoeboxgirly








Post Posted: Sun, Nov 06 2011, 4:34 pm       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
I used to live in Hendon, when I got married I did what many many many young couples are doing, which is move to Borehamwood. The majority of people are newlyweds and young families.
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Mrs Bissli








Post Posted: Mon, Nov 07 2011, 7:44 pm       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
amother wrote:
Out of interest, roughly how much are the contributions to Jewish state schools?


We pay just under GBP1000 per term. This is after Gift Aid tax deduction (something voluntary aided schools can do but not applicable for independent/private schools).
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nylon








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 3:38 am       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
Is that per child or total?

Curious because I remember the JC surveying contributions and I remember them being less than that--I only had a baby then so didn't know from experience.
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amother








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 9:46 am       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
Mrs Bissli wrote:
amother wrote:
Out of interest, roughly how much are the contributions to Jewish state schools?


We pay just under GBP1000 per term. This is after Gift Aid tax deduction (something voluntary aided schools can do but not applicable for independent/private schools).


Wow, that seems incredibly expensive. That's about the same amount as some of the private schools where we currently live charge!
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nylon








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 10:41 am       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
They can't mandate that you pay it. One parent accused a school of being very nasty about the contributions and the government made clear that a state school cannot force you to pay a voluntary contribution.

Obviously you should pay it if at all possible but if you are genuinely unable to pay they have to help you.

Independent schools would be at least 3000 a term.
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Mrs Bissli








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 10:43 am       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
247 per child, per month. so just under 3000 p.a. or 1000 per term.
This is for junior years (Yr4-6).

I believe first two years would be lower as the government gives further subsidy to 3&4 yr olds,
and juniors have more intense limudei kodesh curriculum.

Another school that is still independent (though eventually hoping to become voluntary aided) has tuition about 5000 p.a. Some schools offer siblings discount.
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amother








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 5:07 pm       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
Mrs Bissli wrote:
247 per child, per month. so just under 3000 p.a. or 1000 per term.
This is for junior years (Yr4-6).


Sorry to go off topic but what do you get for that? This extra money is just for Kodesh isn't it? How many hours of kodesh are the children getting for that money? I am really surprised at how much it is!
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Mrs Bissli








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 5:24 pm       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
amother wrote:
Sorry to go off topic but what do you get for that? This extra money is just for Kodesh isn't it? How many hours of kodesh are the children getting for that money? I am really surprised at how much it is!


Happy to discuss off-line, if you want to send me a PM. But both DH and I are very pleased with LK.
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Raisin








Post Posted: Tue, Nov 08 2011, 6:54 pm       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
kodesh can be 25%-50% of the school day, depending on the school.

even the cheapest M.O school in the states is more then $10,000 which is twice what Mrs Bissli is paying. Most cost far more (15, 20000) More right wing schools tend to be cheaper for some reason.

If your local school costs much less then that either it is heavily subsidised, the teachers are not paid very much, or it is running in the red.

Also the voluntary contributions go to security costs.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Nov 09 2011, 7:45 am       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
Our kids school fees/ 'voluntary contributions' are 850 a term per child, less 25% if you are eligible for Gift Aid. For 2 kids currently in school, we pay under 4000 for the whole year (no deductions or sibling discounts). Playgroup is expensive though.... about equal to school fees!
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Nov 09 2011, 8:41 am       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
Raisin wrote:
kodesh can be 25%-50% of the school day, depending on the school.

even the cheapest M.O school in the states is more then $10,000 which is twice what Mrs Bissli is paying. Most cost far more (15, 20000) More right wing schools tend to be cheaper for some reason.

If your local school costs much less then that either it is heavily subsidised, the teachers are not paid very much, or it is running in the red.

Also the voluntary contributions go to security costs.


25-50% seems a lot but it explains the high contribution.

The largest Jewish school where we currently live IS heavily subsidised by the community but is private rather than state.

I know school fees in the states are crazy expensive, I don't know how anyone affords it!

Knowing this goes even further to confirm that state schools are the way to go for us. I'm now wondering whether state school provision might be better outside of London in cities where there is just one or no Jewish schools or whether there would be the same challenges that state schools in London are facing.
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nylon








Post Posted: Wed, Nov 09 2011, 10:03 am       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
There are parts of the UK with excellent state schools--even parts of London.

But there's an excellent chance your child will be the only Jewish one and almost certainly the only frum one. Jewish schools have really grown in the past 30 years or so, and British Jews are very concentrated in a small number of communities. The Jewish kids I know in regular state schools tend to be secular--and the rich secular (and still some more religious families, though not as much as it used to be) send to independent schools. And, you won't find much Jewishly in these areas.

Remember, English state schools have mandatory religious education. It's not meant to proselytize, but it is meant to reflect the fact that Britain is predominantly Christian. They also have a required act of daily worship, also Christian (some schools, especially secondaries and those in multicultural areas, flout the rule). Not to mention things like having Nativity plays at x-mas. I actually have more issues with sending a child to state school in England than the USA.
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shoeboxgirly








Post Posted: Wed, Nov 09 2011, 11:54 am       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
Being the only Jew in the school is not necessarily going to kill off all yiddishkeit. I grew up in a smaller community outside of London. I went to a Jewish Primary School (whch had about 20% Jewish intake) and went to a free non-Jewish grammar school. I was heavily involved in an orthodox youth movement. I'm not naive, I know I'm in a minority in that I'm frummer than I was and have chosen to get frummer. I was influenced by a strong kehilah mentality and I went to a school where I was enabled to be an ambassador for Judaism.

I am a genuine believer that if you want your child to have a good Jewish education, you give the child a good Jewish education at home. At school is a bonus, but I've seen friends go less frum who went to Jewish school too.
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amother








Post Posted: Wed, Nov 09 2011, 12:01 pm       Post subject: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk c
my husband was one of the only frum kids in a non Jewish (private) school and hated it. Your kids might be fine with it at primary level but hit 11 0r 12 and you might change your mind.
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shoeboxgirly








Post Posted: Wed, Nov 09 2011, 12:37 pm       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
amother wrote:
Your kids might be fine with it at primary level but hit 11 0r 12 and you might change your mind.


I wouldn't send my kids to non-Jewish primary school. Secondary school might be different. I'd still prefer Jewish school despite my own experiences, because I now live in an area where there are Jewish secondary schools. OP, you asked about places in the UK, I would recommend choosing a place with a Jewish life, so you can have the choice to send to Jewish school (even if you choose not to) and your kids can grow up with Jewish friends round the corner.

Apologies if this and my previous posts are conflicting. I'm just putting it out there that there are so many choices, and the right ones for one person may be the wrong ones for another.
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amother








Post Posted: Thu, Nov 10 2011, 12:54 pm       Post subject: Re: re: what is considered a good salary in London or other
shoeboxgirly wrote:
I am a genuine believer that if you want your child to have a good Jewish education, you give the child a good Jewish education at home. At school is a bonus, but I've seen friends go less frum who went to Jewish school too.


So am I (I'm the OP)

I never went to a Jewish school. I grew up in an area where there were virtually no Jews and I learnt all about Xtianity at school and got a Jewish education at home. My husband also never went to a Jewish school but it MUCH more religious that his brother who did.

We would like to live in an area which has other Jewish families and a shul with a decent children's/youth programme so our children (bezrat Hashem) would have plenty of contact with other Jewish kids, but we don't feel that that contact needs to come from school.

Anyway, that was all o/t but having taught in a state school in London I do see that sending to a school with a high number of non-native/ non-fluent English speakers might not be ideal.
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