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-> Children's Health
In the kitchen
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 Wed, Feb 01 2012, 7:31 am
This is for all my fellow imamothers...those for, against and unsure about vaccines.
Not in the safe haven but please be sure to have watched all 3 parts of the video before commenting - total watch time is about 25 minutes.
http://youtu.be/NuHrmwQ9gvI
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mamommommy
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 8:32 am
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I have nothing to add to the debate, but I just want to say that Gary Null is known as a sensationalist, so he's not exactly the best source for even-handed reporting.
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 9:21 am
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Well if what he is saying is true I would be completely upset and shouting about it too...can you show me where he is accused of lying? Because being "sensationalist" is a weak counterargument.
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anon for this
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 9:36 am
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Gary Null also claims that the HIV virus doesn't cause AIDS, and in the 1990's denied the existence of the AIDS epidemic.
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mamommommy
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 9:42 am
| In the kitchen wrote: | | Well if what he is saying is true I would be completely upset and shouting about it too...can you show me where he is accused of lying? Because being "sensationalist" is a weak counterargument. |
You misunderstand me. I am not arguing against any of the facts of the issue, I'm merely pointing out that he is not the most reliable front-person. It is always easy to twist and report the facts to support whatever viewpoint you want, something for which he in particular is known to do. If the argument against vaccinations can be made (which I believe it can), then it would be stronger coming from a source that is known and respected for their expertise in this area and their even-handed reporting (none of which describes Gary Null).
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 10:36 am
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But who would anyone consider to be respectable if they are against the vaccine industry? I am certain no suitable candidate could be found because anyone who speaks against vaccinations is branded as a looney-a hippy-what have you and everyone is very successfully brain washed into following exactly what anyone who is a doctor says, except of course those doctors that the vax industry labels as idiots.
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gryp
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 10:43 am
The vaccine part of the video is very, very good. He is right on all points.
It is amazing that not a single person can answer him, they'd just rather bash him as a person. We know that. Everyone who questions vaccines becomes an extremist quack even if you're a pediatrician.
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 10:48 am
| HindaRochel wrote: | http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/null.html
That should sum up his credentials. |
The guy writing is article against Gary Null is completely against many mainstream homeopathic things that he promotes. The author has it out for homeopathy and hates anyone promoting them and wants to de-value this other Doctor by saying his school wasn't good enough. (It is however, accredited, so there you have it.)
That article doesn't show me why Dr. Gary Null would be incorrect and what he could possibly gain from his accusations against the vaccine producing companies.
However, all the arguments from the vaccine companies that try to scare us into using their vaccines without showing us the science (show me a double blind study please), also the studies that the companies were doing were themselves flawed terribly...uch my heart breaks at all that is going on and all the lies.
Just like time and time again doctors vaccinated or treated us with this drug or that and then 30 years later out comes ::whoops:: there is some major after affect.
Why are people SO certain that isn't happening today? Today they know everything? Today they met with G-d and He explained it all?
I am 100% certain that they do NOT in fact know all the rammifications of these vaccinations. I am just wondering how long it will take for the boiling pot to overflow.
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HindaRochel
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 10:58 am
Why are you so sure Gary Null knows it all? What if he is wrong?
The quackery site is anti all non-science based medicine.
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In the kitchen
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 1:30 pm
| HindaRochel wrote: | Why are you so sure Gary Null knows it all? What if he is wrong?
The quackery site is anti all non-science based medicine. |
I am not sure he "knows all". However, I do find that the profits these companies are making and the advertising and legislature being passed forcing people to get vaccinated is highly suspicious and absurd...really really scary stuff.
So many times in our recent history there have been practices that doctors used and medicines they prescribed that many years later they learned "oops! We made a mistake, but now we know better." Who can believe that they know EVERYTHING now? It just isn't possible. Science is constantly evolving and learning.
I hear so many people doing whatever their doctor says and insisting that we have to follow them like Torah mi Sinai and it is just pathetic. We are talking about science here, not Torah. If you are sick, yes by all means go to the doctor to get help, and if he messes up while treating you you can't be faulted.
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HindaRochel
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 1:44 pm
| In the kitchen wrote: | | HindaRochel wrote: | Why are you so sure Gary Null knows it all? What if he is wrong?
The quackery site is anti all non-science based medicine. |
I am not sure he "knows all". However, I do find that the profits these companies are making and the advertising and legislature being passed forcing people to get vaccinated is highly suspicious and absurd...really really scary stuff.
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Dr. Null is raking money in as well getting people NOT to go forward with allopathic medicine.
| Quote: | | So many times in our recent history there have been practices that doctors used and medicines they prescribed that many years later they learned "oops! We made a mistake, but now we know better." Who can believe that they know EVERYTHING now? It just isn't possible. Science is constantly evolving and learning. |
Can you clarify the "so many times" for me? Which practices have been proven harmful? I'm not talking about recalls because of a mistake in formula or contamination. I'm talking thalidomide (not approved in the USA btw) Of course some have - medicine has been developing for thousands of years now. Many of the recommended medical treatments of the past, which were for many years naturopathic, have been shown to be nonsense or dangerous.
| Quote: | | I hear so many people doing whatever their doctor says and insisting that we have to follow them like Torah mi Sinai and it is just pathetic. We are talking about science here, not Torah. If you are sick, yes by all means go to the doctor to get help, and if he messes up while treating you you can't be faulted. |
No one is insisting we follow them like Torah mi Sinai. I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded though. Why would you be faulted?
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mamommommy
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 4:17 pm
| gryp wrote: | The vaccine part of the video is very, very good. He is right on all points.
It is amazing that not a single person can answer him, they'd just rather bash him as a person. We know that. Everyone who questions vaccines becomes an extremist quack even if you're a pediatrician. |
But don't you think a pediatrician, who does not earn a living solely by doing exactly this kind of thing would be far more credible? Again, I personally have no strong opinions on this debate, as I think both sides carry a lot of merit, but I just don't think that it ever helps any sort of cause if people rally behind someone who seeks out notoriety by making all sorts of sensationalist claims, even if every once in a while one of them is correct.
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Barbara
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 4:50 pm
Hmmm.
Anti-vaccination people say you can never trust any study that was funded, but not conducted, by the pharmaceutical industry, due to bias. Without every citing or referring to any instances of bias in any particular study.
But if someone DARE to mention that someone like Null does not appear to have any hard scientific background whatsoever, spouts dangerous lies, like the notion that AIDS is not a s-xually transmitted virus but, rather, caused by things like malnutrition, or mentions that he makes money off his own promotion of alternative remedies and sale of product (and THIS you need to read, for sheer amusement
http://articles.nydailynews.co.....laims )
then, well, you're just a pawn of the pharmaceutical industry.
You need to be aware of the source of information. And with this guy, I'd be looking for a second source.
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gryp
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 4:51 pm
edit.
Last edited by gryp on Thu, Feb 02 2012, 9:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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NaturalMom
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 4:55 pm
Dr. Palevsky is a physician that is completely against vaccinations. Here is his website: http://www.drpalevsky.com/
He is currently board certified, although he jokes that it will be revoked any day now because of his anti-vaccine stance. He went to NYU Medical School. He was the Chief of the Pediatric Acute Care Unit at Lenox Hill. He is as "real" as a doctor can get.
I wish he would do a video like this.
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NaturalMom
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 4:58 pm
| Barbara wrote: | Hmmm.
Anti-vaccination people say you can never trust any study that was funded, but not conducted, by the pharmaceutical industry, due to bias. Without every citing or referring to any instances of bias in any particular study.
But if someone DARE to mention that someone like Null does not appear to have any hard scientific background whatsoever, spouts dangerous lies, like the notion that AIDS is not a s-xually transmitted virus but, rather, caused by things like malnutrition, or mentions that he makes money off his own promotion of alternative remedies and sale of product (and THIS you need to read, for sheer amusement
http://articles.nydailynews.co.....laims )
then, well, you're just a pawn of the pharmaceutical industry.
You need to be aware of the source of information. And with this guy, I'd be looking for a second source. |
Barbara, thanks for that link. It made me laugh out loud. 
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gryp
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 5:16 pm
| NaturalMom wrote: | Dr. Palevsky is a physician that is completely against vaccinations. Here is his website: http://www.drpalevsky.com/
He is currently board certified, although he jokes that it will be revoked any day now because of his anti-vaccine stance. He went to NYU Medical School. He was the Chief of the Pediatric Acute Care Unit at Lenox Hill. He is as "real" as a doctor can get.
I wish he would do a video like this. |
Dr. Palevsky is one of many.
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NaturalMom
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Wed, Feb 01 2012, 8:23 pm
Yes, gryp, he is. I wish we could get them all together to do a video - "Doctors Against Vaccines." Now that would would be a link to post. 
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