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LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspection?!?
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 1:54 pm       Post subject: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspection?!?
When we first got our apt in January 08, with our NewBorn all was very nice and well,
Then in May of '08 we were told about some inspection they were having on the house and we needed to clean up and make it seemed like weren't living there... they were very vauge with us, but DH finally pressured them to tell us why (a few days b4 this inspection was happening)

Turns our because they are on Sec 8, there can't be any other ppl living in the house, if the gov. finds out that there are other ppl they can lose their sec. 8.

So we basicly didn't wanna cause them a problem, not to mention we had just signed a contract and truth is, we didn't have any other place to move. (it took us 5M to find our apt, and we didn't wanna move back into my in laws again!).

I was VERY bothered that the LD was not upfront from the get go and "forgot" to tell us about this when signed with them.

We are not coming up to the 4th inspection and I've had enough!!! DH is a much more patient, and nicer a person then I am, because despite the fact that last Feb (2011) I had a baby, he was still willing to move out for that day last March when it was time for the inspection - (last year it was in March instead of May or April like the previous years).

I'll admit that we have a pretty good price for the place we're living in, but our neighborhood is not a very good one, not a very frum neighborhood, and the bad element around here is just getting worse.

So this year I'm putting my foot down. Since the inspection is coming up, and we haven't yet found a place to move out to, I still feel like I have to move out (even though I KNOW I don't have to at all, and I'm doing it totally as a favor for another yid)

but I'm asking my LL for compensation. What is reasonable? a half a month's rent or a whole month's rent off... at this point it's not easy at all for me, with a 3 yr old and a 1 yrs old.... (it was NEVER easy and a pain in the *** but we didn't expect to still be here at this point)

They have been making a pretty penny form their sec. 8, for the past 4 years because we were willing to be nice and move out, and I haven't' seen anything in return from them. (except last year, they gave us a Nut platter from Oh-Nuts b4 shabbos w/ a thank you note for our cooperation)

please let me know what you think.
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flowerpower








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 1:59 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
I think they should for sure compensate for you doing them a big favor. Does she realize what a big thing it is to move out with two babies? Perhaps she should pay for a hotel room and you can go there?
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Tzippora








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:05 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
IANAL, but I would be concerned about the fact that you are aiding them in defrauding the government... Forget the inconvenience of moving out, this a larger issue of whether you are willing to be complicit in this. From a legal perspective, if they are caught, what happens to you - is there civil or criminal liability? Moreover, you think the landlady will continue giving you discounted rent if she loses her section 8? Want to be evicted while dealing with those potential legal issues? Didn't think so. So I would skedaddle anyway.

Not to mention the chilul hashem and how dirty it makes the rest of us feel that people keep committing fraud and thinking it's just dandy.

Posted under my name because this grinds my gears.
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Last edited by Tzippora on Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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causemommysaid








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:06 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
what their doing is illegal so you have higher bargaining power then you think. for sure make some demands. its total chutzpah what they are doing
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:07 pm       Post subject: Re: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspe
flowerpower wrote:
I think they should for sure compensate for you doing them a big favor. Does she realize what a big thing it is to move out with two babies? Perhaps she should pay for a hotel room and you can go there?


OP here, the inspection is pretty quick, and our LL "does us a favor" and makes sure that it happens in the morning, with in a 2 -3 hour time period. (normally it can happen any time that during the business day: 8am - 4pm - I guess that's the gov's working ours)... in the past years we've taken the time to go out to eat in the morning, and went to work late, and last year I scheduled a well visit apt for that morning...

but this year I'm home full time, and and it's just a pain to make my kitchen look like it's never used - it's officially my LL's pesach kitchen so it has to look not used...
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:12 pm       Post subject: Re: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspe
Tzippora wrote:
IANAL, but I would be concerned about the fact that you are aiding them in defrauding the government... Forget the inconvenience of moving out, this a larger issue of whether you are willing to be complicit in this. From a legal perspective, if they are caught, what happens to you - is there civil or criminal liability? Moreover, you think the landlady will continue giving you discounted rent if she loses her section 8? Want to be evicted while dealing with those potential legal issues? Didn't think so. So I would skedaddle anyway.

Not to mention the chilul hashem and how dirty it makes the rest of us feel that people keep committing fraud and thinking it's just dandy.

Posted under my name because this grinds my gears.


OP here, you have a valid point, didn't think of it that way. I would only be asking for a break THAT MONTH. (the month of inspection) - not the all the time....

but don't worry, we are looking for place to go, we are very straight shooters and can't stand the dreidles and stuff...
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:13 pm       Post subject: Re: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspe
amother wrote:
flowerpower wrote:
I think they should for sure compensate for you doing them a big favor. Does she realize what a big thing it is to move out with two babies? Perhaps she should pay for a hotel room and you can go there?


OP here, the inspection is pretty quick, and our LL "does us a favor" and makes sure that it happens in the morning, with in a 2 -3 hour time period. (normally it can happen any time that during the business day: 8am - 4pm - I guess that's the gov's working ours)... in the past years we've taken the time to go out to eat in the morning, and went to work late, and last year I scheduled a well visit apt for that morning...

but this year I'm home full time, and and it's just a pain to make my kitchen look like it's never used - it's officially my LL's pesach kitchen so it has to look not used...


I wonder if your actions would constitute aiding and abetting the commission of fraud in connection with Section 8 housing.

Certainly you landlord is committing welfare fraud.

I'd consult an attorney. But at the very least, ask your rabbi if you are obligated to commit what may be a crime in order to help your landlord. Or to protect your landlord from being caught in committing a crime.
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Happy18








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 2:14 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Make landlord pay for a cleaning service so it looks like its not used. This is not your problem. What the landlord is doing is illegal and personally I would move.
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chocolate moose








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 3:38 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
I also would leave.
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BinahYeteirah








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 3:49 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
I would not want to help other people commit fraud. I'd move as soon as I could.
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celestial








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 3:52 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
I agree with those saying it's aiding and abetting a serious crime - one that could possibly endanger your family, not to mention is ethically questionable and goes against our mission as Jews to be an ohr l'non jews and obey at least dinei d'malchusa.

But if you can't move out immediately, I would accept no less than for them to pay for a cleaning crew and your hotel room for when they expect you to be gone. Even if they do that, that's a huge and unacceptable inconvenience to pay as a tenant.
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5*Mom








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 3:56 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Has it occurred to you that the apartment is altogether illegal regardless of this section 8 fraud?
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 5:48 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
OP here, It's built legally, it's just not legal for them to have a tenant.... we're looking for a different place, but in my area it's not so easy...

I don't get involved in other ppl's legalitys, but when it starts to effect me, it's an entirely different story, which is why we're looking........ Hypnotized Shooting Arrow Help What At wits end Nerd Hurry up Angel Occasion Ice cream Flower Shooting Arrow
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mamaleh








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 8:43 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Slightly different perspective, though I do agree with alot of what's been said:
I'm not discussing the legalities or morality of the whole thing-others have done a good job of that.
I think you could have asked for compensation the first year because they didn't tell you about it before you signed your lease, but now that's it's the fourth year & you knew this was coming when you stayed on, I think you lost your chance. I think it would be like them coming to you in the middle of lease and saying, "It's really inconvient for us to have tenants this month so if you want to stay we will be charging an extra $X." I understand that it is hard for you to find a new place but if you wanted compensation for 'helping' with the inspection, you should have told them that when you renewed your lease.
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amother








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 8:53 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Scheme to defraud.
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ChutzPAh








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 10:41 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
You say you are a "straight shooter" but that is not the case at all! You are enabling them to defraud the government. Have you ever asked a shaila (or thought for yourself, really) that there is a serious problem with this?
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medola








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 10:52 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Asking for "compensation" may come off as bribery, and may entangle you with your LL's fraudulent activities.
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sequoia








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 10:59 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
You'd better move. No one will be interested in your story if they're caught.
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Orchid








Post Posted: Sun, Mar 18 2012, 11:57 pm       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Asking for money sounds like a mafia shakedown. Just get out as soon as you can.
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ElTam








Post Posted: Mon, Mar 19 2012, 10:32 am       Post subject: re: LL making me move out 4 a day cuz of HER sec 8 inspectio
Quote:
I don't get involved in other ppl's legalitys, but when it starts to effect me, it's an entirely different story, which is why we're looking


Um, honey, you are knee deep in their legalities, because you are knowingly aiding fraud against the government. If they get caught, you and your DH could face legal penalties as well. Oh, and breaking the law of the land is against Torah, as is lying and stealing, which you are actively a part of by living there with the knowledge you have.
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