Is a firstborn son a bechor if the mom had a miscarriage?

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:10 am

DH and I were arguing about this.... is a firstborn son still considered the bechor if his mother suffered a miscarriage or stillbirth before he was born? Obviously, he would not have a pidyon haben, but would he still be considered a firstborn? AFAIK, a boy born by C-section doesn't get a pidyon haben either, but he would still be considered a bechor if he was the first child.

DH doesn't want to ask his rov about it.

grace413

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:18 am

While I'm frequently the last to say ask a Rav, I don't know what other options you have here. Without even pretending to give a psak, I think a child born after a full term stillbirth is not a bechor and regarding a miscarriage I believe it may depend on how far along the pregnancy was.

Is this a question that has practical implications for you at this time?

Lady Godiva

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:21 am

I think that if a woman had a miscarriage very early in the pregnancy then the couple still makes a pidyon haben.
I'm not sure how far into the pregnancy that is. This is definitely the type of question to ask a Rabbi!

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:29 am

My oldest was born after a 16 wk m/c. No pidyon haven but still considered a first born in terms of fast of first-born before pesach. Not sure if that is what your asking about specifically or where else the issue of being first born comes into play.

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:31 am

my mil lost her first baby within a few hours of birth, and got a psak from a gadol that my dh is the bechor.

not saying this is across the board psak, but it obviously does exist.

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:49 am

My brother had pidyon haben in his late forties after it was discovered that my mother had a very early miscarriage (around 8 weeks)

amother

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 5:57 am

I lost two pregnancies, both during the 1st tri., and were told that IYH with this baby we will be able to have a pidyon haben. I think the 2nd one only 'didn't count' because it was a blighted ovum, there was no fetus at all. It's about the size and age of the fetus, afaik.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 6:36 am

Pidyon Haben goes after the mother's first baby, while the rest of the halachos of a bechor go by his status as his father's child, and therefore there is no slam dunk correlation between the 2.

Besides for fasting, it also comes into play about yerusha...

I have definitely heard piskei halacha where someone who was ineligible for a pidyon haben was the bechor (and vice versa -- when it was the father's not first child but the mother's), so it's something that must be asked. It's not a shaila to feel any shame about when asking.

Tova

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 8:57 am

My husband was once the Cohen at a pidyon haben where the mother had a previous miscarriage and it was paskined based on the exact situation that a pidyon was needed but should be done in a quiet minimal way. The father of the baby was in our kollel, so on that day during bein hasedarim they gathered a minyan in the corner of the room, did the pidyon, and passed out some pastries. I'm not even sure the female relatives were present.

Shuly

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 10:37 am

I had a miscarriage before my bechor was born. My miscarriage was at 10 weeks, but the fetus measured 7 weeks. Our Rav paskened that we should have a pidyon haben and mentioned that if the fetus would have measured 10 weeks, we would also have one, but without a bracha.
Since each situation is unique, you really have to ask.
If your DH doesn't want to ask a rav, you can call by yourself.

clowny

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 10:47 am

I recently heard about a first born son but a second child who had a pidyan haben bec his older sister was born via c section so that makes him a bechor. My question is- if the first born would also be a boy, who is the bechor??

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 10:55 am

That doesn't make much sense to this uneducated mind, clowny. C-section does not invalidate one's existence as a bechor of the father. It just doesn't make one the first fruit of the womb or whatever of the mother for pidyon haben...

Leahh

Thu, Feb 20 2014, 11:37 am

clowny wrote:

That is very interesting and would like to hear a source or rav if possible. I had a girl via csection then a boy naturally. A pidyon haben wouldn't apply to me anyway because we are not yisroel but I am curious about this.