Anyone got Seminary credits through Skokie

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 10:27 am

Need advice here.

My DD is going to Seminary in E"Y next year, in order for her to get credits she has to go through Skokie "HTC"

We don't qualify for Pell grants so I will have to pay out of pocket. I want to know if it is worth it.

I need as much advice as possible

Thanks

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 10:54 am

I got my Israel credits through HTC (TI/Blitsetein is for women) but I also went there after seminary to get my bachelors. What do you want to know?

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 10:59 am

My DD will not be going there for her bachelors. I want to know if the credits can be used in any college and it will take less time to get her BA.

I want to know if it is worth the money.

Fox

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 11:09 am

HTC/Blitstein Institute is accredited by NCA (North Central Association of Colleges and Schools), the regional accreditor in the Midwest, so whatever credits she earns will be easily transferrable.

That said, I believe the cost of going through HTC/Blitstein is approximately $1500. If you're primarily interested in receiving financial aid and anticipate receiving more than the money than you have to pay out, then it makes sense.

However, if financial aid isn't the issue, you may want to think this through a little.

First, read the fine print very, very carefully. I don't know if it's still the case, but HTC/Blitstein used to require students earning credits in Israel to participate in an on-campus seminar-type class after their return in order for HTC/Blitstein to give them college credit. If that requirement still exists and/or still requires a residency for even a short period of time, that may factor into your decsion.

Do a little comparison shopping: Touro also offers credit for seminary under a similar program, and you should probably check out their requirements.

Finally, if your DD has her eye on a particular college program when she returns, simply talk to their registrar now regarding how credits might transfer. Every accredited college has to have some system in place to evaluate foreign transcripts. Depending on the size of the school and the diversity of the student body, some colleges have in-house people to do this; others contract with a third-party service. I've seen many, many instances in which a student simply provided her seminary transcript and received as much credit as she would have through HTC/Blitstein or Touro.

Keep in mind, too, that not every course taken in seminary will be granted HTC or Touro credit. Certain courses that aren't considered "academic" enough are sometimes excluded.

Also, a lot depends on the specific requirements of your DD's post-seminary college program. For example, let's say she's going into some sort of engineering program. The degree requires 30 credit hours of electives and another 20 credit hours of "liberal arts" for which some seminary courses might apply. However, she wants to participate in an internship program that counts toward 15 credit hours of electives. In addition, the 20 credit hours of liberal arts includes 10 credit hours of basic courses that cannot be completed elsewhere and transferred. Now, she's down to a maximum of 25 credit hours that could potentially be fulfilled through seminary. She's lost 5 credit hours regardless of whether she goes through a US-accredited school or not.

My best advice is to start with the colleges your DD is likely to attend when she returns. Even if she's not 100 percent sure what she wants to do, start the application process with at least one local college -- preferably one that is known to be friendly to foreign students. Call or make an appointment with the Registrar's Office and find out how they evaluate foreign transcripts and transcripts from faith-based post-secondary schools.

Ask for their advice in how to facilitate the process. If they tell you that going through HTC or Touro will make it much easier, then you have your answer. Likewise, if they say, "Well, assuming a grade of 'C' or better, we would accept 20-25 credit hours in transfer from the ABC Seminary," you may decide that you're better off dealing directly with the college.

Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions. Although I no longer work in the field, I spent much of my professional life in post-secondary academic administration.

PinkFridge

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 11:10 am

I assume she's not going through a Neve seminary? Because AFAIK they evaluate the credits for you. There's also an independent evaluation method I know someone went through but it was a few years ago.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 11:23 am

Thank you Fox

DD's school does not work with touro. She can get Seminary transfer credits (I don't know what that means). We do not qualify for the pell grant (middle class luck here). I filed for FAFSA so I know that I am out of luck.

DD does not know what she wants to do but is thinking possible social work or not going to college at all.

My question do I spend this money $1500 (which I don't have right now). Is it worth it for me?

m+m

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 11:39 am

amother wrote:

If DD will definitely be attending college after seminary it is worth spending the money. Maybe they will let you make small payments? Speak to Rabbi Olstein he is very understanding.

There is no extra work in seminary in order to get the credits. She is doing the same work, but for $1,500 you're receiving 20-30 credits. 20-30 credits is almost to full semesters of college so it's chopping 1 yr of post seminary college off. This will put her 1 yr "ahead" as well as save money bec transfer credits are cheaper than 2 semesters of full time college.

PinkFridge

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 11:51 am

I'm not sure if it's worth the money. When we went through one of the schools mentioned we had some state grant money to play with; that program's no longer around, and we didn't qualify for any government aid. As Fox mentioned, your post-sem college of choice may still accept credits even if directly through the seminary. I know of places that have done and still do that.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 12:03 pm

It is a hard choice.

DD might not go to college and do something else. If I can use the Seminary transfer credits then why I am I spending 1600 (including the application fee) for no reason.

I have to add HTC states on their web page she needs to take some classes from them, but can do it online. If I have to send her to Chicago I am out even more money.

PinkFridge

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 12:12 pm

amother wrote:

How much is it on line?
A lot of kids who go to college and don't get scholarships start out at community colleges to keep costs down. Lots of things to think through, sorry it's under such pressure. hatzlacha!

Fox

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 12:21 pm

Esti's Mom wrote:

There is no extra work in seminary in order to get the credits. She is doing the same work, but for $1,500 you're receiving 20-30 credits. 20-30 credits is almost to full semesters of college so it's chopping 1 yr of post seminary college off. This will put her 1 yr "ahead" as well as save money bec transfer credits are cheaper than 2 semesters of full time college.

The question is, though, whether she needs affiliation with a US-accredited program in order to receive those credits, and in my experience, the answer is, "not necessarily."

In my experience, it's often better to start on a particular course of action even if you later end up making changes.

Let's say, as the OP mentioned, that her DD is thinking of becoming a social worker. Now, all of us know that this is a vague idea at best. Her DD may decide after a year of seminary that her greatest contribution to klal Yisroel and mankind is as a dog groomer. Here's how I would proceed:

Start by identifying a likely school that your DD might attend in your area if she wanted to go into social work. Start the application process, and make an appointment with the Registrar's Office. Find out how they evaluate foreign and faith-based transcripts. Take a sample transcript from the seminary. If they indicate that they will accept the credits without a US-based intermediary, then you have your answer: you need to go through HTC/Blitstein. If not, then you have no need to do so.

Now, what happens when DD comes home from seminary? First thing off the plane, make sure she enrolls in a basic course or two at the college. She doesn't have to declare a major yet or make any irrevocable decisions, and taking a single course over the summer is a good way to ease into post-seminary life. While she is taking this course, make sure that the college has received all final transcripts they need from the seminary or HTC/Blitstein.

By fall, DD has found her true calling as a dog groomer, and she decides to transfer to Madame FouFou's Academy of Poodle Coiffure. Madame FouFou's school is a regionally accredited school because Madame FouFou herself believes that her graduates must have a well-rounded liberal arts education in order to truly appreciate the subtleties of dog grooming and communicate well with dog owners. So her program requires 40 credit hours of liberal arts. DD presents her transcript from the local college, which includes her transfer credit and the summer course she took. Madame FouFou evaluates the transcript and is willing to credit her with 28 credit hours.

After completing her certification as a dog groomer, DD is tapped by a multi-national corporation to expand their dog-grooming services in their chain of pet stores. However, they insist all their executives have bachelors' degrees. DD now has a total of 60 credit hours to her name: 28 that was accepted by the local college from seminary; 3 from the summer course she took; and 32 that she took to get her dog grooming certificate.

DD now has the choice of doing a combination of online classes and part-time work to earn the degree she needs. Even though she ended up very far from social work, she hasn't "lost" anything. Her credits have followed her.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 12:42 pm

Fox

Thank you for sending me in the right direction.

I sent off an email to one of the local Jewish get your BA program and started asking questions.

I wonder if I can email the registrar at the local community college.

Let's see what I can find out.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 12:50 pm

Just sent an email to the local community college with my questions.

I wonder what my answer will be.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 12:55 pm

Speak with your accountant. If you are enrolled in an American college, you might be eligible for education tax credits and that will offset the cost. The American college does the tax documentation.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 1:01 pm

amother wrote:

Speak with your accountant. If you are enrolled in an American college, you might be eligible for education tax credits and that will offset the cost. The American college does the tax documentation.

Yes I am looking into that, I get that with my son's beis medrash. I wonder if I will get every dollar back as a tax credit. I have been playing with the form.

greenfire

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 1:20 pm

also there are grants available for ability to write what you feel you'd gain out of schooling in israel ... hm

can't remember but it's like there's one winner from each city or something ...

anybody know what I mean?

Fox

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 3:14 pm

I'll add a little background to this situation for the benefit of the OP and any lurkers:

One of the reasons that HTC/Blitstein and Touro got into the business of partnering with seminaries and yeshivas to accept credits goes back to one of our favorite controversial topics here on imamother: the tension in EY between secular and religious Jews.

While the US institutions do turn a profit and have an opportunity to recruit students as a result of offering a gateway to financial aid and transfer credit, it's a lot of extra aggravation for them. Because seminary/yeshiva in EY is treated like a "year abroad," it makes their retention statistics (the percentage of students who start a degree versus the percentage that finish the degree within 6 years) absolutely horrible, which causes all kinds of problems related to accreditation. Believe me, if it were just about financial aid, they'd probably opt out of the whole thing.

However, a large number of students returning from seminary/yeshiva in Israel would submit their transcripts to whatever colleges they wanted to attend, and the colleges would turn these over for evaluation by a third-party service. And who do you think such a third-party foreign transcript evaluator would employ to review transcripts from Israeli schools? Yup! An Israeli with an advanced degree who was likely to be secular in outlook and who might or might not consider seminary/yeshiva to be legitimate.

As a result, it was a complete luck of the draw. If your transcript happened to land on the desk of someone who was sympathetic or at least able to set aside his/her personal opinions, you might have lots of credit accepted in transfer. If, however, your transcript landed in the hands of someone with real animosity toward religious Jews and their institutions, you would get absolutely nothing. I remember reading one scathing review that stated that "these people" (who run seminaries) were nothing more than "snake-handlers" and suggesting that the college revisit the admission of such a student. The college, of course, had no interest in what seemed to them to be an intranecine fight.

For many years, students avoided this problem by enrolling at a Jesuit-run university immediately after seminary/yeshiva. Jesuits believe that faith-based education and "academic" subjects are not mutually exclusive and see no conflict in considering, say, a Chumash class to be transferable as "philosophy," "history," or "foreign language."

When federal financial aid requirements changed in the early 90s, HTC/Blitstein and Touro were required to attain regional accreditation for any of their students to receive financial aid. Thus, it made more sense for a variety of reasons to validate Israel study through their own programs rather than passing it off to the Jesuits.

So whether Pope Francis turns out to be good, bad, or pareve for the Jews -- hey, at least he'll take your credits!

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 3:30 pm

Your post is so interesting Fox, Life is all about politics, taxes and aid from the gov't these days.

You have been a big help.

I am waiting to hear back from the colleges that I emailed and figure out what to do.

DD is not the studious type so I can't be certain that she will finish a college degree so I really need to know the benefits for me to pay the fees.

I already told her she is paying for her college because I am wiped out from the seminary fees. I also did that because I know if I pay for college she will not be responsible for her courses. When it is going to come out of her pocket she will think differently.

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 10:07 pm

Fox (or others) what about going through TTI or other frum college credit programs?

amother

Thu, Mar 13 2014, 10:43 pm

I work in a US based seminary that offers credits. A lot of our girls come to us after a year abroad. If your daughter is going to be finishing her BA, then I would highly recommend paying the credits. A few reasons why: 1) Will get a year headstart on her degree. It takes time. 2)Degrees are expensive. If you are already paying so much for seminary, it makes sense to pay 1500 more to get those 20-30 credits. I know seminary is a bloody fortune and the extra money means no money left for food, but if you would have to pay for those credits, it's usually about 750per credit.

Good luck!

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