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Mouth to mouth for a stranger on the street?
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 10 2014, 9:51 pm
chocolate chips wrote:
I thought people who are hiv positive cannot give blood?!

..


well, we don't know how long ago this incident happened. HIV was only identified in the 1980s--ok, most of you weren't even born then but I remember people buzzing about some weird new disease only gay men got (that was the US population in which the disease first came to the attention of the medical profession). It took some time before the virus was identified and longer than that for a reliable and cost-effective blood test to be developed. Tennis great Arthur Ashe, among others, died of AIDS acquired through a transfusion before the blood test was developed. This instructor may have been speaking of an incident that happened 25 years before. The kid was a teen but he may have been transfused as an infant.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 9:32 am
Carrying a mask sounds really too much... unless this is your job

My dh is "on top" of "first aids" things, learned a course, keeps up to date... by here the rule is yes mouth to mouth (actually, ideal is mouth to NOSE), don't do compressions if untrained.

If you are a professional please get your vaccines, hep B should be a must!! even if you "just" travel abroad it's good to get.

Blood wise of course you can't with HIV!! it must have been a mistake. You can't even with much smaller things, from a recent pregnancy to having lived in England (not sure this is universal though) to tattoos to homos-xual relations.

Voila, this is what he said Smile
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 10:40 am
I'm surprised so many people are saying "your health first."

You can't get AIDS or HIV through mouth-to-mouth unless the other person (has HIV/AIDS and) has blood coming out of their mouth (in which case mouth-to-mouth probably wouldn't be an option anyway). Even if blood is coming out of their mouth, it probably won't get into your bloodstream.

It might be technically possible to get Hepatitis, but it's a really long shot (chances aren't good that a random stranger has it, if they do have it, chances aren't good that it's present in their saliva, if it is, chances aren't good that their saliva is getting in your mouth through proper mouth-to-mouth, if it does, chances aren't good that you have a cut in your mouth that would lead to infection.... etc).

I can see why paramedics would be told to always use a mask. They're paramedics, it's reasonable for them to always have a mask.

But for an everyday person to risk someone dying because of the 0.000whatever chance of catching a serious illness from them? That would be messed up, IMHO. Yes, your health first if it's a question of your life vs. theirs (eg. jumping into stormy waters to try to save someone who's drowning), but if it's their life vs. a tiny tiny chance of risking your life that's already a different story.

I would do mouth to mouth if necessary, for sure.

(Like previous posters said, if there's only person there to help, chest compressions are more important. But AFAIK, that doesn't rule out mouth-to-mouth as a helpful option entirely. If someone isn't breathing and it's been more than a minute and there's already someone doing compressions, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do mouth-to-mouth under the current guidelines, too. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can weigh in on that.)
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carpediem




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 11:38 am
ora_43 wrote:
I'm surprised so many people are saying "your health first."

You can't get AIDS or HIV through mouth-to-mouth unless the other person (has HIV/AIDS and) has blood coming out of their mouth (in which case mouth-to-mouth probably wouldn't be an option anyway). Even if blood is coming out of their mouth, it probably won't get into your bloodstream.

It might be technically possible to get Hepatitis, but it's a really long shot (chances aren't good that a random stranger has it, if they do have it, chances aren't good that it's present in their saliva, if it is, chances aren't good that their saliva is getting in your mouth through proper mouth-to-mouth, if it does, chances aren't good that you have a cut in your mouth that would lead to infection.... etc).

I can see why paramedics would be told to always use a mask. They're paramedics, it's reasonable for them to always have a mask.

But for an everyday person to risk someone dying because of the 0.000whatever chance of catching a serious illness from them? That would be messed up, IMHO. Yes, your health first if it's a question of your life vs. theirs (eg. jumping into stormy waters to try to save someone who's drowning), but if it's their life vs. a tiny tiny chance of risking your life that's already a different story.

I would do mouth to mouth if necessary, for sure.

(Like previous posters said, if there's only person there to help, chest compressions are more important. But AFAIK, that doesn't rule out mouth-to-mouth as a helpful option entirely. If someone isn't breathing and it's been more than a minute and there's already someone doing compressions, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do mouth-to-mouth under the current guidelines, too. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can weigh in on that.)


Technically you are right about HIV, but I was taught to always assume all body fluids as contaminated and protect myself. I've only used a mask once or twice, on an ambulance you primarily use an ambu bag.
I would NOT suggest performing mouth to mouth on a stranger. Your safety does come first. The best thing to do is call 911 or hatzala right away and perform compressions.
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farm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 3:15 pm
ora_43 wrote:
I'm surprised so many people are saying "your health first."

You can't get AIDS or HIV through mouth-to-mouth unless the other person (has HIV/AIDS and) has blood coming out of their mouth (in which case mouth-to-mouth probably wouldn't be an option anyway). Even if blood is coming out of their mouth, it probably won't get into your bloodstream.

It might be technically possible to get Hepatitis, but it's a really long shot (chances aren't good that a random stranger has it, if they do have it, chances aren't good that it's present in their saliva, if it is, chances aren't good that their saliva is getting in your mouth through proper mouth-to-mouth, if it does, chances aren't good that you have a cut in your mouth that would lead to infection.... etc).

I can see why paramedics would be told to always use a mask. They're paramedics, it's reasonable for them to always have a mask.

But for an everyday person to risk someone dying because of the 0.000whatever chance of catching a serious illness from them? That would be messed up, IMHO. Yes, your health first if it's a question of your life vs. theirs (eg. jumping into stormy waters to try to save someone who's drowning), but if it's their life vs. a tiny tiny chance of risking your life that's already a different story.

I would do mouth to mouth if necessary, for sure.

(Like previous posters said, if there's only person there to help, chest compressions are more important. But AFAIK, that doesn't rule out mouth-to-mouth as a helpful option entirely. If someone isn't breathing and it's been more than a minute and there's already someone doing compressions, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to do mouth-to-mouth under the current guidelines, too. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can weigh in on that.)

Is this an emotional response or a scientific one?
What is the probability of a random middle aged man on a US city (?- OP, I am making an assumption this is where your story takes place?)street having AIDS with a viral load present in his bodily fluids at a level that would allow for transmition? I have no clue, but I wouldn't risk my own life that the probability is too low for me to worry about it.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 3:18 pm
Because all those African Americans have HIV, it must be the black skin that attracts the virus Puke
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 3:19 pm
Yes a random us city street and not the greatest neighborhood either
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 3:29 pm
farm wrote:
Is this an emotional response or a scientific one?
What is the probability of a random middle aged man on a US city (?- OP, I am making an assumption this is where your story takes place?)street having AIDS with a viral load present in his bodily fluids at a level that would allow for transmition? I have no clue, but I wouldn't risk my own life that the probability is too low for me to worry about it.

Transmission through saliva??? How many cases of that happening have there been worldwide? Let alone in America, which doesn't have the crazy high HIV rates of many countries.

I'm not a medical professional, but I did learn about HIV specifically relating to non-medical work with people with the virus.

FTR, American medical sources seem to agree, the CDC categorizes the risk of HIV contraction from spitting/saliva exchange as "negligible."
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farm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 3:51 pm
ora_43 wrote:
Transmission through saliva??? How many cases of that happening have there been worldwide? Let alone in America, which doesn't have the crazy high HIV rates of many countries.

I'm not a medical professional, but I did learn about HIV specifically relating to non-medical work with people with the virus.

FTR, American medical sources seem to agree, the CDC categorizes the risk of HIV contraction from spitting/saliva exchange as "negligible."

1. "Negligible" does not = zero
2. He can have an open sore in his mouth or could have bitten his tongue in the course of passing out
3. HIV transmission (thanks- I had a feeling I didn't spell that one correctly!) may be close to impossible, but hep C is a lot less of a stretch
4. I am probably biased based on my profession/working environment

Wouldn't do it and am not surprised that many others agree with me.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 4:08 pm
ora_43 wrote:
Transmission through saliva??? How many cases of that happening have there been worldwide? Let alone in America, which doesn't have the crazy high HIV rates of many countries.

I'm not a medical professional, but I did learn about HIV specifically relating to non-medical work with people with the virus.

FTR, American medical sources seem to agree, the CDC categorizes the risk of HIV contraction from spitting/saliva exchange as "negligible."


Would you lick a lolipop from a stranger on the subway? Would you drink from a straw after a stranger took a sip? Would you chew a piece of gum they chewed?
Yes, I know these examples are exaggerations. But the point is the same.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 4:25 pm
amother wrote:
Would you lick a lolipop from a stranger on the subway? Would you drink from a straw after a stranger took a sip? Would you chew a piece of gum they chewed?
Yes, I know these examples are exaggerations. But the point is the same.

If there was a significant chance that the stranger on the subway would die otherwise, then yes, of course I would.

I'm not saying that there's absolutely no risk, zero, zip, and swapping spit with strangers is a fun and totally safe thing to do at random. I'm saying it's a reasonable risk to take if the alternative is letting someone die.

(FTR, I'm also not arguing that it's always worth risking one's own life to save someone else's. As I said earlier, there are situations where the risk is just too high. And medical professionals in particular have their own protocols, as they should)
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 11 2014, 9:27 pm
I'm a BT, and in my dating days, I have swapped a LOT of spit with a LOT of guys. We're not just talking a few puffed breaths, I'm talking hours and hours of tonsil hockey here. Tongue Out B'H, I never caught so much as the common cold.

On the other hand, I was babysitting once, and the baby sneezed on me. I came down with the stomach flu of DOOM the next day, which then morphed into a head/chest cold that lasted for weeks, then it became bronchitis, and then finally pneumonia - which took me 3 (THREE!) courses of antibiotics to cure.

Just something to think about, next time you feel safer giving mouth to mouth to an infant.
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 12 2014, 6:30 pm
You can't get HIV/AIDS from mouth to mouth or from kissing.

HIV is transmitted only from zexual fluids (like semen or v@ginal fluid) or blood, not saliva (spit). And it's not enough for the fluids to touch your skin.

So HIV/AIDS is transmitted from zexual fluids (during zex), or from direct contact with blood, or from mother to her unborn child during pregnancy.
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miriaml




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 25 2014, 6:52 pm
You do not retrieve HIV through saliva. There are a few ways the HIV virus can be transferred 1.Blood to blood 2. Breastfeeding and 3. Having relations.
Hope that helps Very Happy
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