No tzitzit until toilet trained?

kalsee

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 3:22 am

I've heard that many times as מובן מאליו but no one seems to know why.

Does anyone have a source for that?

Do you know where it comes from?

sped

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 4:09 am

I think the idea is kavod for tzitzis, but I know of quite a few that do put on tzitzis with a diaper. I think Rav Yitzchak berkowitz holds this.

ElTam

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 5:03 pm

It's out of kavod for the tzitzis. Just like you take a baby to change out of a room with seforim. We learned that if a boy turns three and isn't toilet trained, you put tzitzis on him in the a.m. when he is clean, help him make a bracha, and then take them right off.

rzab

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 7:40 pm

There's the cleanliness issue, but I think it's a practical issue as well. It makes toilet training a little harder when you are dealing with extra strings.
I know for my son that was the big reward, we told him once he was toilet trained he could start wearing tzizis. to which is twin sister asked now that she was toilet trained, could she get her tzizis.....

greenfire

Wed, Mar 05 2014, 8:38 pm

think of the practical side - they won't be falling in the toilet all the time ...

[although they should be taken off for the youngens to use the potty regardless]

Rodent

Tue, Mar 25 2014, 5:26 am

There is no halachic basis whatsoever. Mind you there is no obligation to wear tzitzit either, just to have tzitzit on the corners if you happen to wear a 4 cornered garment. My kids don't always wear tzitzit (mostly because they're broken and my husband hasn't repaired them...) but I have no problem having a non toilet trained kid wearing tzitzit. They aren't intrinsically holy, it's a bit odd if you ask me and not at all comparable to something that bears the name of God. (And yep, I have no problem writing God either).

MaBelleVie

Tue, Mar 25 2014, 7:29 am

Rodent wrote:

The strings aren't holy? What makes you say that? When a string breaks off we bury it with genizah.

morah

Tue, Mar 25 2014, 7:44 am

Not everyone holds this. I recently asked my Rav as my son is approaching 3 and not fully trained. He said its fine, just take them off while changing a diaper or bringing him to the potty to keep them "out of harm's way".

ally

Tue, Mar 25 2014, 1:07 pm

Ruchel wrote:

You can wear "treif" ones for chinuch

This doesn't really make sense to me. Since (as Rodent already pointed out) there is no real obligation to wear tzitzis unless you happen to be wearing a four cornered garment, by wearing treif tzitzis, you are are actually being "over" the commandment of tzitzis. While by wearing nothing, you are not really over anything.

amother

Tue, Mar 25 2014, 1:27 pm

Technically kids tzitzis are too small to need tzitzis - minimum size is amah al amah.

We put on tzitzis at 3, toilet trained or not.

Ruchel

Wed, Mar 26 2014, 1:45 pm

ally wrote:

true! it's to get into the habit

manhattanmom

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 5:45 pm

We didn't. My son wore tzitzis to his actual upsherin (with a diaper) but afterwards, we waited until he was trained (closer to age 4 :/) for him to wear tzitzis every day. I never looked into any sources, I just didn't feel it was kavod.

GetReal

Mon, Mar 31 2014, 8:32 pm

I asked a Rav and he said it was fine. And you can bring tzitzis into the bathroom...