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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Middleschool girls "drama"
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 10:28 am
Just because it's "normal" doesn't make it okay.

It's normal for a child to be selfish and greedy and rude, for example, but it's our job to mold that child into a decent human being.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 10:35 am
I clearly remember the drama and meanness (yes) of some girls. Sometimes of myself :/
And it wasn't even a separated class, just boys and girls didn't really hang out so much, most didn't even want to share a table (table were for 2 kids).

My husband doesn't understand all this drama and why sometimes girls still resent each other many years after. He remembers more outright physical fighting or wtv (bad also!!). Girls in my times (!) rarely hit, almost never. But sometimes words are worse.
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 12:02 pm
it's great that your daughter is sharing with you.
the most you can do is listen to her and encourage your daughter to be kind and nice to all the girls weather she is friends with them or not. and to treat everyone the way she would want to be treated.
anything beyond that stay out of it.
it is inappropriate for that mother to have called you for this kind of situation. she is making a mistake.
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ruby slippers




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 12:12 pm
op here- I don't think the mother is painting my dd as the aggressor and my dd is certainly coming home upset. Its the other young lady who just can't fathom why my dd doesn't want to be BFFs with her. Admittedly I can see my daughter giving this girl the silent treatment and that's why I explained to her she must be polite to everyone. Say hello, even if it makes you ill. etc. I think she understands that, but she doesn't want to have a heart to heart and tell her how mean she has been to her as she sees that it will not help the situation since she has mentioned before to her when she has hurt her feelings. Either the girl doesn't get it- or she is being sarcastic, which I know my daughter doesn't understand and takes to heart.
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ruby slippers




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 12:15 pm
Also, Thankjfully my daughter and I have a relationship where she is comfortable coming to me for these things and I don't want to jeopardize that and lose her trust that I am safe person to talk to.

My dh also doesn't get it-" why don't they just give each other a good punch and then go play basketball and act like nothing happened.!"
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 12:30 pm
marina wrote:
Just because it's "normal" doesn't make it okay.

It's normal for a child to be selfish and greedy and rude, for example, but it's our job to mold that child into a decent human being.


I don't get the feeling that eema's DD is selfish and greedy and rude. I get the feeling that she would like to be polite and nice to this girl, but that's it.

Just like I teach my girls that their physical body is private and their boundaries need to be respected, so too their emotional needs and relationships are their choice. They can be nice, but they do not have to be more than that to anyone they do not choose.

DH and I can go out to dinner with each other exclusively. If the neighbor next door is jealous, that's their problem. However if we make a party for the whole block, we won't exclude the neighbor.

Similarly, if my DD makes a class gathering, she will invite everyone. But she can choose to be BFF with someone of her liking, and if she invites that friend over for a Shabbos afternoon, and another girl overhears and feels left out, she will have to deal with it. DD does not have to invite everyone, all the time.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 1:55 pm
Chayelle, 12 year old girls are not married to each other. There is no reason kids have to have a "best friend". Why can't they have two or three or five good friends?

Of course, if the OPs kid feels her friend is belittling her I don't think she has to hang around with her.

But it also sounds like she does not always exhibit the best midos (silent treatment??? I hope my daughters don't do that to their classmates) and could definitely improve in her behaviour.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 2:20 pm
while kids should fight there own battles ... there's a rampant case of bullying going around ... harsh enough that there have been suicides

girls should be taught to be mentschlich

& mothers should be taught that they shouldn't fight their kids battles but encourage cordiality as op - eema1 - is doing

good luck hormones !!!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 2:35 pm
I don't like the faint sense of threat.

"Tell your daughter to be friends with mine or else."

I am not impressed with the other girl dragging her mother in; to my mind the only reason to do that is to use her mother to coerce you, as above.

I think the other kid's ways sound icky and unstable. She isn't nice and she doesn't know her mind; there's odd stuff in that household.

I approve OP's telling her daughter she doesn't have to be friends with anybody unless she feels like it.

I don't think OP should communicate much with the other mother. I don't think the other mother can hear anything constructive.

In short I think they are all crazy and OP should home school, but that's extreme I acknowledge.

It's all about nuttiness, mixed with power strategies.

Where is a patriarchalist when you need one.

Female power, ugh.

Men at least negotiate rationally: if you can kill me, I will carry your books.

That makes crude sense.

If a male isn't consistent in his treatment of me (as this girl isn't), and, makes his mother call mine, he will be found girled, in a steep, deep, dark, obscure, heavily wooded ravine.

But our gender gets away with it.

Well, not on Imamother.

OP, you have had good advice here. Ignore these idiots and instruct your daughter to stay safe. That girl is crazy.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 2:42 pm
For what do we live. For Torah. To live bully-style, we might as well not live.

What Greenfire alludes to isn't Torah living and isn't worth living, which I guess is the reason for the suicides. But for what did their honest wonderful mothers labor for fourteen hours, then?

I wonder if the buildings are simply too crowded? Animals that are in too-small cages bite each other.

But what do I know.
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ruby slippers




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 2:44 pm
op- follow up- my dd home from school and said she took my advice and was polite to the girl and it wasn't so terrible. yay! She even tried to include her in a game during recess. very proud of her!

My dd would love to be home schooled to avoid all the drama- but then I think she (knowing her personality) would never learn to deal with different kinds of relationships. Some kids do great with home schooling- wouldn't work for her- but would save us a bundle on tuition! Very Happy

Thanks everyone for all of the great advice/chizuk!
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 2:58 pm
Dolly Welsh wrote:
For what do we live. For Torah. To live bully-style, we might as well not live.

What Greenfire alludes to isn't Torah living and isn't worth living, which I guess is the reason for the suicides. But for what did their honest wonderful mothers labor for fourteen hours, then?

I wonder if the buildings are simply too crowded? Animals that are in too-small cages bite each other.

But what do I know.


what on earth are you saying ??? do you think suicide evades jews ??? do you think bullying is too taboo for frumkeit ??? do you think every mother labours for 14 hours ?!?!?!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 3:28 pm
Home schooled kids certainly do learn about relationship! They aren't in prison. They go here, they go there, they hang with folks. That's a canard. Their parents just have to arrange their social lives more energetically, and purposefully, but that's quite do-able. For one thing the other home schooling families want to see yours: they have the same need.

(I have never home schooled. And, I don't hate institutional schools. Whatever works in each individual circumstance. Home schooling is a valid option when the particular case warrants it.)

Glad your daughter is handling it. SHE's a treasure. The other kids may learn from her or may remain themselves.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Mar 31 2014, 11:22 pm
I always find it interesting that when their child is the perpetrator, mothers like to "stay out of it" and "let them battle it out on their own" but when their child is the victim, all of a sudden they want all the other mothers to get involved.
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 01 2014, 1:49 am
groisamomma wrote:
I always find it interesting that when their child is the perpetrator, mothers like to "stay out of it" and "let them battle it out on their own" but when their child is the victim, all of a sudden they want all the other mothers to get involved.

Yes
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 01 2014, 3:41 am
Dolly Welsh wrote:
If a male isn't consistent in his treatment of me (as this girl isn't), and, makes his mother call mine, he will be found girled, in a steep, deep, dark, obscure, heavily wooded ravine.

found girled?
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ruby slippers




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 01 2014, 6:13 am
op here again- just to follow up- the mother called last night, had a brief conversation but I explained that my dd is trying to be polite and she should let the girls work it out and she did mention her daughter said my dd made a point to say goodbye at end of school day. She was really fishing as to what her daughter was doing mean to mine and I really wanted to say that her daughter can be an obnoxious snob who only uses girls when it works for her... but held my tongue cuz it would have come out wrong and my dd did not want me to say anything at this point.

I also worked on some come back lines with my dd (its such a shame I even had to do that) in case mean comments happen again. such as,
that really hurt my feelings... if you have nothing nice to say then don't say it... wow- hashem is really proud of you for embarrassing me like that! and the all time favorite,.... well you don't like what I am wearing but you're ugly and at least I can change clothes! (I don't think she will ever use that one, but it had her cracking up!).

Have great day everyone and thanks for all the help and advice!!
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 01 2014, 7:47 am
Raisin wrote:
Chayelle, 12 year old girls are not married to each other. There is no reason kids have to have a "best friend". Why can't they have two or three or five good friends?

Of course, if the OPs kid feels her friend is belittling her I don't think she has to hang around with her.

But it also sounds like she does not always exhibit the best midos (silent treatment??? I hope my daughters don't do that to their classmates) and could definitely improve in her behaviour.


I guess we can respectfully disagree. I've found that kids are different, their personalities cause them to gravitate to different types of relationships. I don't think we can force a particular mold on a child.

My oldest DD (15) has always been the social butterfly type. She tends to move in groups of friends. My next one (12) is somewhat quiter and more focused, and she has had a BFF since kindergarten. She has other good friends too - it's not an exclusive relationship, they each have other friends and give each other respectful space, but have been consistently close. She is the type that tends to move in smaller groups, with one or two close friends at a time.

I would not force my child to spend time with someone they don't wish to. They have to be nice, but they don't have to invite someone over if they'd rather not. They don't have to go out of their way to call them on the phone, etc...

I do tell my DD's that the minute they respond to nastiness with nastiness, they become part of the guilty party. Of course, tweens are a work in progress and when put on the defensive by a nasty comment, it's really hard to play "nice girl" and a comeback is tempting. Notwithstanding, it always pays off to be nice - that's my message to them.

I also do think that our childhood social relationships prepare us for marriage, and often we look for qualities in our spouse that we appreciated in our friends. That's why setting boundaries, developing a healthy sense of self, and knowing what's important to us in a relationship, is a crucial part of a child's development.
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ruby slippers




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 01 2014, 8:13 am
well said!
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