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Student called parents to bail him out
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ChutzPAh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:02 pm
You know what I always think about in threads like these? What if the boy's mom is on here and reading all of this? Wouldn't that make op feel weird?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:16 pm
amother above, are you the parent who thinks when her son hits a child on the playground it's okay because the other boy was annoying him? If the consequence of hitting a child is a one-day suspension, what happens?

The child brought a cell phone into class and was TEXTING on it during class. The teacher has a policy that texting during a test = zero. if he gets away with AnYTHING less unless it were an absolute emergency - like he is severely allergic and needed an epipen, there is NO REASON he should've been texting his mother.

Whether that is an appropriate punishment is ONE question. Whether or not he deserved it I don't think should be litigated.

There are certain laws in this country that if you break you get the punishment, no matter that consequences.

Taking a privileged child who thinks it OK to break a rule about texting and then doesn't think HE deserves the consequences, is going to be a child who NEVER learns about consequences.

Not supporting the teacher in a school where there are clear rules of conduct, that the child knows is NOT acceptable. If the parents think that texting during a test shouldn't equal zero, then they can discuss a change in policy with the school or teacher, but once that's the policy...and the kid violated it (that is not subject to litigation), end of discussion.

There's a policy in my school that cameras may not be looked at during class time, if they are, they are to be confiscated by the teacher and given to the principal. The students know this. Today there were three students looking at two cameras during my class. I went over and confiscated the cameras. I put my hand out and they gave them to me. Know why? Because they know I follow the rules and they can't wriggle their way out of them. Another student from a different class saw me leave class with the cameras and asked me if I was taking them to the principal. I say yes. She said "ouch, before vacation, too. They should've known better." And this is not the most responsible, mature student, but she knew what the consequence was, period. The girls will get their cameras back at the end of the school year.

OP - what happened today?
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Annie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:17 pm
If his mother is on here, I hope she's maybe introspecting and thinking about how she shouldn't have gone after the teacher for a mistake HER SON made.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:17 pm
OP here. The principal has decided he will sit for a makeup and the highest he can get is a 65. Parents unhappy and still fighting it, but the principal wants to send a message that this is taken VERY seriously.

Amother, you should brush up on your reading comprehension. I did NOT impose any penalties, other than taking the phone and asking him to wait for me in the office. What was I supposed to do, let him disrupt his classmates still taking the test? I told him I would hear him out at the end of the period. He did not give me that chance, he went to his other device and got the ball rolling. I do NOT believe in one-size-fits-all zero-tolerance policies precisely because there are situations where leniency would be permitted. I ALWAYS talk to the student/principal/parents before making anything official, because the student deserves to tell their side; however, this is simply not possible in the middle of the test.

My problem is NOT that the parents were involved. Parents SHOULD be involved in such a serious situation. But it was the way in which it happened. 10 years ago, before tablets, the student would not have been able to contact anyone (unless they had a second phone). The principal would have called, and the parents would have either dealt stayed on the phone, come in right then or maybe later in the day. They would have still advocated for their child, but having heard from the school first, they would have heard the school's side already. Here, they heard the child's side, came in guns blazing, and demanded that he deserves nothing (or an eensy beensy slap on the wrist). He's lucky he's in high school. In college, such a shtick would likely have him fail the course (not just the test) and possibly place him in front of an academic committee begging them not to kick him out. He didn't cheat, which is why I don't believe he deserves a zero (though I was feeling a tad less generous after he handled things the way he did), but he still needs a serious consequence because phones ARE more often than not used for cheating and should not be out during a test. Period. And the parents should calm down and at least listen to the teacher's/principal's perspective. They can still argue and advocate, but to insist their child did NOTHING wrong because he wasn't googling the answers is not right and does stem from a certain attitude of their child deserving special treatment. As I've said, I and my colleagues have dealt with them before.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Apr 04 2014, 8:53 am
amother wrote:
amother above, are you the parent who thinks when her son hits a child on the playground it's okay because the other boy was annoying him? If the consequence of hitting a child is a one-day suspension, what happens?


Ah, yes. Attacking me personally is the best way to conduct a debate. It clearly demonstrates that your arguments are well-considered and balanced.

amother wrote:

The child brought a cell phone into class and was TEXTING on it during class. The teacher has a policy that texting during a test = zero. if he gets away with AnYTHING less unless it were an absolute emergency - like he is severely allergic and needed an epipen, there is NO REASON he should've been texting his mother.

Whether that is an appropriate punishment is ONE question. Whether or not he deserved it I don't think should be litigated.


Well, then, we'll just have to disagree.

I don't think that draconian punishments should be imposed absent full consideration of all circumstances, with all sides being given a fair hearing.

When schools suspend or expel a kindergarten boy for holding up a chicken finger and saying "bang bang," or a student who took a razor away from a boy who was cutting himself, I'm horrified at the lack of discretion and judgment. I'm no less horrified by the lack of discretion and judgment of a teacher who would impose the same penalty on a child who breaks a rule but does not cheat as on one who cheats.

amother wrote:

There are certain laws in this country that if you break you get the punishment, no matter that consequences.


Indeed there are. And many of them aren't just.

amother wrote:

Taking a privileged child who thinks it OK to break a rule about texting and then doesn't think HE deserves the consequences, is going to be a child who NEVER learns about consequences.


Well, there were consequences. His grade on the test will be lowered. Why does every consequence need to be nuclear? You mention the child who bothers another child at the playground. That child should be banned from the playground for life. Why not? If he had stabbed another child, that would be the consequence. So why shouldn't we impose the same penalty for all infractions?

amother wrote:

Not supporting the teacher in a school where there are clear rules of conduct, that the child knows is NOT acceptable. If the parents think that texting during a test shouldn't equal zero, then they can discuss a change in policy with the school or teacher, but once that's the policy...and the kid violated it (that is not subject to litigation), end of discussion.


Teachers are not always right. End of discussion.

amother wrote:

There's a policy in my school that cameras may not be looked at during class time, if they are, they are to be confiscated by the teacher and given to the principal. The students know this. Today there were three students looking at two cameras during my class. I went over and confiscated the cameras. I put my hand out and they gave them to me. Know why? Because they know I follow the rules and they can't wriggle their way out of them. Another student from a different class saw me leave class with the cameras and asked me if I was taking them to the principal. I say yes. She said "ouch, before vacation, too. They should've known better." And this is not the most responsible, mature student, but she knew what the consequence was, period. The girls will get their cameras back at the end of the school year.

OP - what happened today?


I certainly hope you gave each girl a receipt for her camera, and received a receipt when you turned them in. I know of a school where the phones (in that case) were stolen, the office claimed they had never been received, and the teacher was responsible for replacing them.

But let's leave that aside. As a teacher, do you really equate taking away a camera with potentially impacting a child's future, without grounds for appeal? If so, I'm truly glad my children will never have you as a teacher.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Apr 04 2014, 10:39 am
My son is that kid, amother. He's immature, but bright. He's the type that can do 99 good things, but will be caught doing 1 bad thing, which will have devastating consequences. He has a high SAT score, but needs to maintain a 90 average to get the scholarship he's after for College. His average is 89.2. So I was very sympathetic to your cause.

So I just asked him "say you were in an exam and I texted you 'what do you want for dinner?'"
Without letting me finish my sentence, he answered "I wouldn't text you back".
"What would happen if you did?" I asked.
"I would for sure be caught, my phone would be confiscated, I would be sent to the principal and probably automatic suspension".
"What would happen to your grade?" I asked.
"Automatic zero".

If OP's school has drummed this into the students as well as my guy's school seems to have done, this was a predictable consequence, and the student should be held accountable.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Apr 04 2014, 10:48 am
amother wrote:
I certainly hope you gave each girl a receipt for her camera, and received a receipt when you turned them in. I know of a school where the phones (in that case) were stolen, the office claimed they had never been received, and the teacher was responsible for replacing them.

But let's leave that aside. As a teacher, do you really equate taking away a camera with potentially impacting a child's future, without grounds for appeal? If so, I'm truly glad my children will never have you as a teacher.

I meant to be quoting a different part of your response but for some reason that isn't coming up.

Either way, just wondering why you think everyone should suffer because the kid didn't think of his own consequences. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. And whether or not he looked up answers, taking out a phone during a test is pretty universally understood as cheating. And there's no reason he shouldn't suffer the consequences of his own actions. You won't get into your first choice college shaifele? Well, I'm sorry that you screwed that up but maybe you'll learn from this and not get expelled from your second choice college for doing the exact same thing. Your actions have consequences and you have to deal with them.
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invisiblecircus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 06 2014, 2:33 pm
amother wrote:
If you believe that the appropriate sanction for improper use of a cell phone by a student during an exam, that demonstrably did not involve cheating (and that the teacher concedes she suspected from the start did not involve cheating) is that they should be denied admission to college, and have the rest of his life adversely impacted, then the consequence is, as you say, "appropriate."

I don't think that's an appropriate sanction, even for cheating, particularly for a first offense.


Whether or not the sanction is appropriate, it was clearly laid out in advance of the exam so the student can choose to follow the rule and avoid the sanction or break the rule and suffer the consequence. To be fair, it should not be difficult for a student to get through an exam without sending a text message so it seems easy enough to avoid the sanction.

If this exam was so important that it would influence his college admission then all the more reason for the student to play by the rules even if he doesn't agree with them.

Regarding cheating vs not cheating, it could start to become difficult to manage if you have to spend time investigating each case to find out whether or not the student was cheating. This time there was one boy. He got away with a lesser sanction. Next time there could be 10 boys. Teaching staff now have to set up meetings with each of those boys and their parents so they can each plead their innocence. Maybe it would be possible to "plan" a text conversation with mom at the same time as googling answers.

Teachers do not need to spend their time dealing with this. The rule is any phone use during an exam results in a zero. It might be harsh, but luckily it is easy to avoid.

amother wrote:
Do you think that teachers are always right, and that students should never be permitted to defend themselves? Because, as I noted, this teacher imposed the penalty without allowing the student to defend himself or explain his actions. Its not the case here, but what if the student's sister had been in surgery, and he agreed to attend school only if mom would text him when the surgery was finished and his sister was safe. Do you still think its fair to give the kid a zero?


It seems he didn't need to defend himself because there was no question of whether or not he was using his phone and thus, breaking the rule.

If there had been some kind of emergency situation as you describe, the student needs to make staff aware IN ADVANCE of the exam so that appropriate measures can be put into place for him to receive an urgent message if necessary. If a situation arose during the exam (can't think what) then the student needs to raise his hand, explain the situation and ask that he uses his phone under supervision.

What was the explanation for this boy's actions?

I feel sorry for the OP that she was forced to give a 65. I think it would have been fair to give a zero because it does not appear that there were grounds for leniency.

If there was an option to give a zero or a 65 depending on the severity of the transgression and I was leaning towards the 65, I'd probably give the zero on the basis of his reaction.
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invisiblecircus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 06 2014, 2:41 pm
amother wrote:
I am truly troubled by what appears to be a universal opinion that parents are not entitled to be part of any process by which severe sanctions are imposed upon students.


They are.

In every school I have worked in, the school policies have been available to the parents of all prospective pupils. The parents can then decide whether to apply for a place for their child at that school or not.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 06 2014, 2:58 pm
Seems simple to me. You enforced a well known rule. What is short sighted is that the school does not have a rule that applies in all classrooms across the board and is published in the student guide. The principal could then point to the rule and end the discussion. But in Jewish schools, it seems quite difficult to just end the discussion.
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