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Older single women having babies on their own, WDYT?
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 12:29 pm
תחילה עובדי עבודה זרה היו אבותינו ועכשיו קרבנו המקום לעבודתו
In the beginning idol worshippers were our ancestors but NOW Hashem brought us close to serve him...

who cares about non jewish genes

The point is that you cannot have children without a father. As was amply discussed in the first few pages of this thread
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MommyZ




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 12:29 pm
Raisin wrote:
From what I have heard, the Khazars converted to Judaism en masse. So that was not intermarriage. I guess that and the 5% rate was enough to account for the fairer skin and even occasionally blond ashkenazi Jews.

In recent generations there is a lot more intermarriage and conversion (to Judaism) then there used to be.


No, but it did introduce new genetic material.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 1:09 pm
David ha melech was blond or red with blue eyes
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 1:13 pm
With donor you can still have yichus on the other side... and I doubt for most the choice is donor or "normally" in your couple, but donor (or IVF or wtv is being questionned here) or probably nothing. Lo alenu.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 4:26 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:


So, there are 8 cases:

1. Jewish donor sperm, anonymous, single woman
2. Jewish donor sperm, known donor, single woman
3. Jewish donor sperm, anonymous, married couple
4. Jewish donor sperm, known donor, married couple
5. non-Jewish donor sperm, anonymous, single woman
6. non-Jewish donor sperm, known donor, single woman
7. non-Jewish donor sperm, anonymous, married couple
8. non-Jewish donor sperm, known donor, married couple



There are actually also non-IVF cases where a mother becomes a single mother without marriage. For example, she may get pregnant from intimacy with a man who she is not married to. Not all single mothers become pregnant due to IVF.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 5:46 pm
amother wrote:
There are actually also non-IVF cases where a mother becomes a single mother without marriage. For example, she may get pregnant from intimacy with a man who she is not married to. Not all single mothers become pregnant due to IVF.


Amother, donor sperm can be used for artificial insemination or for IVF, but I don't know if the discussion here focuses on the difference between the two. (Lots of difference in terms of expense, health issues, and physical discomfort/pain, but nothing really relevant to the discussion here.) I just want to make that point, because most people seem to be conflating AI with IVF, and when you say that not all single mothers become pregnant due to IVF, you could just be saying that some become pregnant due to AI.

You are correct, of course, that single women can become pregnant the usual way that people become pregnant, through sex. However, I'd guess that a religious unmarried woman would not want to do that.
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Dina_B613




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 6:16 pm
"One does not have children without a father. It opens up the possibility of all kinds of incest."

UNLESS you a)use a non-Jewish sperm donor (no mamzer possibility) or b) know who the donor & his family are.
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 6:32 pm
Quote:
Overall, including non-Cohanim, 14.6% of Ashkenazi Jews had the gene and 11.9% had the gene
I wonder if that would include everyone who came from a Chalal - a kohain who married non-halachically e.g. a divorced woman, and forteited his Kohain status? Would there be so many?
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MommyZ




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 6:47 pm
How about we worry about real incest, and not about the tiny risk presented by sperm donors?

http://genendyspeaks.blogspot......l?m=1
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 6:48 pm
ectomorph wrote:
תחילה עובדי עבודה זרה היו אבותינו ועכשיו קרבנו המקום לעבודתו
In the beginning idol worshippers were our ancestors but NOW Hashem brought us close to serve him...

who cares about non jewish genes

The point is that you cannot have children without a father. As was amply discussed in the first few pages of this thread
I feel like everyone missed this post
thanks for reading
a freilichen kosher'n Pesach
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 7:59 pm
amother wrote:
Mama Bear, you are free to feel what you feel, of course, but I think some words are just better left unsaid. Especially since you are not the most anonymous poster on this board.
It is just simply wrong to state that you think a single woman shouldn't have an IVF baby because , a married woman, didn't have any.


As I said, I would feel differently today probably, having bh tasted motherhood. at the time, it felt like she was skipping to the head of the line, especially bc she already had one child. I'm sorry, but I couldnt help how I felt then.

Raisin wrote:
About Mama Bears comment - many women suffering from infertility have commented how bad they feel when a younger sil has her 4th kids in 5 years, or people bring babies to shul or wherever. Does that mean those of us bh blessed with children should all stop having children or taking our kids places? No. But doesn't mean the pain and feelings are not real, however irrational.


Thank you.

MommyZ wrote:
I think nobody will deny that the pain is real, but the perception is that she was implying that as a married woman, she was more entitled. That is not how fertility works. One person conceiving a baby doesn't diminish someone else's odds of conceiving. So Mama Bear was upset that another woman benifited from a situation that essentially caused her no personal harm. That can come across as a bit egocentric.


I will admit, I've struggled with jealousy all my life, and it's something I still work on. As I said, today I would probably not care so much about it.
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 8:18 pm
I would do the exact same thing as this woman.

If I passed age 40 and was unmarried I would rush to have a baby. I probably would do it much earlier.

You are a bunch of judgmental women. Leave that to Hashem, who is the Real Judge.

So many hours of learning Chumash and Tanach on this board, but not enough to understand the cry off a woman who wants a child, just like Sara Imenu, just like Rachel Imenu, just like Chana who begs for a child?
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MommyZ




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 08 2014, 8:19 pm
Mama Bear, it is admirable for you to admit that. We are all human and I was trying to explain the reaction to your posts. There were valid points on both sides.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 09 2014, 5:50 am
Some things are not tzniut to mention.
Others are just not how we should think of a gadol.

Quote:
the OP says "his shul does not have a Rav". Well that's not good.


Yes. I pray one day all kehilot, all shuls can afford to have a rav come live there (OOT) and come take care of the shul. I grew up in a place, the shul had no rav. We made do.


Cohanim can descend from nonJ sperm on maternal side... and halachically it doesn't matter. A bro and sis who convert can get married because the link is broken. It's the neshama that counts.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 10:32 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:

You are correct, of course, that single women can become pregnant the usual way that people become pregnant, through sex. However, I'd guess that a religious unmarried woman would not want to do that.


Your guess is correct that I may not have WANTED or planned to do it that way. However I did.
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ValleyMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Apr 11 2014, 12:52 pm
I met a lovely frum professional woman who opted to adopt a baby from China.
Would that be considered a better alternative to artificial insemination?

Would it be better if she had multiple relations partners until she became pregnant?

WHY does everyone feel the compulsive need to concern themselves with how other women choose to live their lives?

She wouldn't be asking us for help with babysitting or feeding so why is it our concern.

If everyone spent more time focusing on the important things in life like working on our own character defects, loving and nurturing our spouses and kids, parenting our own children and taking care of the spiritual, emotional and physical well being of our homes we wouldn't have the time to concern ourselves with how other people choose to live their lives.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 15 2014, 7:29 pm
Volunteer wrote:
This legend was told in the gemara somewhere (don't remember where & too lazy to look it up, sorry). The story goes that Yirmiyah told men not to bathe in hot tubs (or something like that) because using them could cause "sperm leakage." So some guys got mad and picked him up and threw him into one (maybe they owned the spa), and a small amount of his sperm got into the water. Then a while later his daughter got in without changing the water, and she got pregnant. Apparently, people figured out what happened and considered the child legitimate. Supposedly Ben Sira was a descendant of this child. Ben Sira (aka Ben Sirach) wrote a book of proverbs that the sages considered apocryphal, but considered generally wise. It is included in the Catholic Bible for some reason. Rav Ovadia has a teshuva about a case where a woman had a child using artificial insemination from a man who would have been a forbidden union to her, and he ruled that the child was okay because no actual sin occurred between the woman and the sperm donor. He cited this passage as evidence for his opinion.

There are two books attributed to Ben Sira. There's the 2nd temple book, which is part of the apocrypha, and there's the book called "The Alphabet of Ben Sira" or "Otiot Ben Sira" which was written some centuries after the gemara. The above story appears in the second book, not in the gemara.
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