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How do you tell ladies not to bring babies to simcha?
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Sara255




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 3:56 am
I love my baby but I know that he gets absolutely nothing out of going to simchas. It's not fair to take him off his schedule and then have him scream during an affair someone spent their life savings on. When he was younger and nursing exclusively, we would go to the simcha for 20 minutes, while leaving the stroller outside and just holding the baby, and just say mazel tov to the relatives. This way we didn't take up seats (and we let the baalei simcha know that we wouldn't be staying for the meal), but we showed them we were happy for them.
If the simcha was too far away, we would stay home. You can't have everything at once, and people understand if you can't make it.
Now that he's older we get babysitters (and yes, we have no money, but that's part of the expenses of having a wonderful extended family and friends). I once took him to a wedding and just chased after him the entire time, so I don't think I would take him to a not-immediate-family wedding until he is old enough to be specifically invited, probably as a friend of the chosson.... Smile
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:26 am
ectomorph wrote:
Didn't read the whole thread.

Just don't invite them.

But honestly, it doesn't sound like a very Jewish attitude. We love children and are willing to deal with the mess because we know that the more neshamos (souls) who participate in our simchas, the better.

The better what? The better the soup tastes? The more blessed the new couple will be? The better Torah the bar mitzvah boy will learn from now on?
No.
It's not an un-Jewish attitude. Maybe just your custom.
The criticism of the OP is making me ill.
I totally see the OP's point in making the simcha more enjoyable and comfortable for the people attending especially in a small area.
Some of you seem shocked that she is OK with people not attending if they cannot come without their precious bundle. It is NOT the same as just not wanting them there.
Ugh.
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Happy18




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:34 am
We went to a wedding recently where the chosson and kallah had specifically said they didn't want any non related children at the wedding. I believe it was on the invitation and they told all their friends. People were definitely taken aback by this, but everyone seemed to understand. It was one of the quietest chuppahs I have ever been at, and all of the kallahs friends actually danced because they could. Afterwards a friend was saying that had she brought her baby she likely wouldn't have stayed for dancing at all, but since she had arranged for babysitting she did.
Other than family, I don't really understand how it became the norm to bring babies to weddings. Growing up an invitation addressed to Mr. and Mrs. X and family meant children were invited, anything other than that should be understood as children are not invited, not sure how/when that changed.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:41 am
DH spoke to our Rabbi. Our Rabbi said that we shouldn't put anything on the invitation and we should expect that the ladies will use their shechel not to bring their babies and small children.

There is no place to put baby sitters to watch the babies. There is no room for strollers without squishing which I am sure is what will happen.

My chassunah was ruined because of certain guests. There was one obnoxious girl who thought it was cute to push into pictures and take things. She pushed into the yichud room. I spend 45 minutes out of the simhca dealing with a different guest who wouldn't get out of the handicapped bathroom when a person in a wheel chair needed it.
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SplitPea




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:47 am
amother wrote:
DH spoke to our Rabbi. Our Rabbi said that we shouldn't put anything on the invitation and we should expect that the ladies will use their shechel not to bring their babies and small children.

There is no place to put baby sitters to watch the babies. There is no room for strollers without squishing which I am sure is what will happen.

My chassunah was ruined because of certain guests. There was one obnoxious girl who thought it was cute to push into pictures and take things. She pushed into the yichud room. I spend 45 minutes out of the simhca dealing with a different guest who wouldn't get out of the handicapped bathroom when a person in a wheel chair needed it.


Honestly if you don't say anything enjoy all the babies at your simcha. I would NEVER bring a lap infant to a simcha she was not wanted at BUT I would never assume she was not welcome unless told so.

Yet another thing in the Jewish world that I feel is not a "Shila" for a rav yet became one and a rav ruling on a non halacic matter.

OP I really hate that so many of your simcha a have been ruined. It saddens me that now you "can't" put anything because I think that's the only way to let people know your preferences.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:48 am
One can't one dance with a baby? get a sling or a stroller.

I would never bring my parents or something, but I do see an invite as being for the nuclear family. Yeah maybe it's cultural. I've brought my baby or child and been thanked for the good siman, too (at engagement or wedding). My parents also brought me to all smachos they attended and most were traditional or MO... in some smachos the bride or even the guests love to dance with the little kids, take pics with them. A couple times they even took my kid to be with them in their family pic !
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abound




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:49 am
My babies (under 3) do not come to my and DHs siblings weddings. I would only bring an infant to a wedding that I had no choice but to attend and I could not leave the infant behind. But I would come in, (leave the stroller outside) and stay for about a 1/2 hour.
In Israel the Yerushalmi weddings look like a show room for strollers and carriages. It used to really bother me, but I learnt that different cultures do things differently.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:53 am
Am I the only one who would be ashamed if someone told me they thought they couldn't bring their child, and downright disappointed if cousins came sans child?? Siblings weddings, if we had them, it would be just impossible for us to not bring our children to see such events.
DD's best friend haaaad to attend her older, from another country first cousin's wedding so much that the parents asked us to postpone DD's bday party.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 7:55 am
Ruchel wrote:
One can't one dance with a baby? get a sling or a stroller.

I would never bring my parents or something, but I do see an invite as being for the nuclear family. Yeah maybe it's cultural. I've brought my baby or child and been thanked for the good siman, too (at engagement or wedding). My parents also brought me to all smachos they attended and most were traditional or MO... in some smachos the bride or even the guests love to dance with the little kids, take pics with them. A couple times they even took my kid to be with them in their family pic !


There is no room for strollers.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 8:32 am
No Ruchel, ectomorph and raisin would be disappointed at the lack of screaming infants and toddlers getting underfoot.
OP, why ask a rav?? What halacha does this pertain to? It is a matter of personal preference, and as the baalat simcha you should be the one deciding.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 8:45 am
heidi wrote:
No Ruchel, ectomorph and raisin would be disappointed at the lack of screaming infants and toddlers getting underfoot.
OP, why ask a rav?? What halacha does this pertain to? It is a matter of personal preference, and as the baalat simcha you should be the one deciding.


It wasn't my idea to act the rav. I wasn't asked before he did. I want the control. The rav and DH won't have the babies and strollers on their side.

DH cares more about community opinion then I do. I married into his community. I compromised on the location. I compromised on the caterer.
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tropicalrainforest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 8:49 am
One of my brothers married a girl whose parents hosted Shabbos Sheva brachas at a hotel . All the siblings were told that they were invited but we could not bring any children . This was an entire weekend event and I understood completely that the Baal simcha was spending a lot of money and wanted to enjoy it without noise , interruptions and general rowdiness of children . Many of my siblings could not find childcare or had nursing babies and were therefore unable to attend . I was able to go and it was a beautiful event . There was speeches ,singing and divrei Torah and bracha and my children and I think most children simply did not belong. Op , this is YOUR hard earned money , your simcha and YOU make the rules . If these people can not respect you for that then shame on them . This is not a question for a rav but a terrible reflection that basic respect and understanding are lacking middos in your social circle .

On a slightly different point , I am blessed with many small children and I understand that at this point in my life , homework , dinner and bedtime is where I am supposed to be most of the time . I simply can not partake in many simchas . My social circle respects and understands this . Why take small children and babies where they do not belong . They should be in bed not dancing with a kallah.
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 9:56 am
tropicalrainforest wrote:
One of my brothers married a girl whose parents hosted Shabbos Sheva brachas at a hotel . All the siblings were told that they were invited but we could not bring any children . This was an entire weekend event and I understood completely that the Baal simcha was spending a lot of money and wanted to enjoy it without noise , interruptions and general rowdiness of children . Many of my siblings could not find childcare or had nursing babies and were therefore unable to attend . I was able to go and it was a beautiful event . There was speeches ,singing and divrei Torah and bracha and my children and I think most children simply did not belong. Op , this is YOUR hard earned money , your simcha and YOU make the rules . If these people can not respect you for that then shame on them . This is not a question for a rav but a terrible reflection that basic respect and understanding are lacking middos in your social circle .

On a slightly different point , I am blessed with many small children and I understand that at this point in my life , homework , dinner and bedtime is where I am supposed to be most of the time . I simply can not partake in many simchas . My social circle respects and understands this . Why take small children and babies where they do not belong . They should be in bed not dancing with a kallah.


OK, I understand someone who might want to restrict children for an evening simcha (although I personally wouldn't).

But I don't agree with doing it for a whole weekend. Shabbos is family time and leaving children behind for a whole shabbos is less than ideal.

(If they can afford to do the hotel thing as it is, they likely can afford to include kids who are less expensive to serve than adults. Or do something more affordable.)
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 10:12 am
Simple1 wrote:
OK, I understand someone who might want to restrict children for an evening simcha (although I personally wouldn't).

But I don't agree with doing it for a whole weekend. Shabbos is family time and leaving children behind for a whole shabbos is less than ideal.

(If they can afford to do the hotel thing as it is, they likely can afford to include kids who are less expensive to serve than adults. Or do something more affordable.)


OP here: My caterer is charging me adult prices for kids. If I invite a family of 8 my costs are quadrupled for food and rentals. I imagine hotels also charge per person for occupancy and food. Not everyone wants a free for all. The solution is simpler. Don't go if you feel the way you do, but don't spend someone else's money.

My location suits the Bar Mitzvah boy and DH. Similarly, the weekend may have suited the kallah.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 10:32 am
amother wrote:
DH spoke to our Rabbi. Our Rabbi said that we shouldn't put anything on the invitation and we should expect that the ladies will use their shechel not to bring their babies and small children.


that is an utterly ridiculous notion ... especially since you said people bring their babies - so there is no seichel to rely on in this instance

& they are not mind readers ... that's for sure

why is this even a question for a rav ... it has no halachic bearing sans mentschlichkeit Confused

[so I made a spelling mistake ~ twice]


Last edited by greenfire on Thu, Apr 24 2014, 1:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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amother


 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 10:36 am
greenfire wrote:
that is an utterly ridiculous notion ... especially since you said people bring there babies - so there is no seichel to rely on in this instance

& they are not mind readers ... that's for sure

why is this even a question for a rav ... it has no halachic bearing sans mentschlichkeit Confused


OP here: ITA

I think my DH was concerned about the notation on the invitation and how the Rabbi thought it works go over.
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abound




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 10:41 am
I agree that the invitation may not be the best way. I think that you should make a personal phone callto one or two people (the ones that are the worst) and tell them that you do not want infants there at all. If they start to argue with you, say I know that you do not see it this way and that is why I am calling to tell you how I want it.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 10:43 am
Why are so many people trying to show OP ways to make it work? That's not what she asked. The decision has been made and she's not looking for advice on how to make it work otherwise, she's looking for advice on how to communicate it to the guests. Look, I've brought nursing babies to simchas when I knew it was OK and stayed home when it wasn't. I have no interest in taking a mobile child to a simcha where they'll be miserable strapped in a stroller and I'll be miserable if they're free and I have to keep them out of the way of waiters with trays of hot food. B'H, I have small children right now and that means that sometimes I have to stay home from shul or a simcha I really want to attend. That's what I signed up for when I became a parent. It won't last forever, eventually I'll be in the older kid stage.

OP, if you're not going to put it on the invitation, then you have to tell the people in question. You say it's 8 families, so that's 8 phone calls to make. Make it clear you would love to see them, but you just can't accommodate any children, not even infants, and you totally get it if it means they'll have to stay home/come for only a little bit. You deserve to make the simcha of your dreams, and if this is a part of it, there's nothing wrong with that, especially since you are ok with people opting to stay home rather than get a sitter. If you lose any friends over this THEY are the ones with the problem, not you!
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 11:50 am
Some see dirt and noise and some see their little nephews and nieces or cousins. Not everyone has a dozen siblings who will get married and not everyone is constantly invited to tons of smachos. You people take things for granted it's not even believable...
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 24 2014, 11:56 am
amother wrote:
OP here: My caterer is charging me adult prices for kids. If I invite a family of 8 my costs are quadrupled for food and rentals. I imagine hotels also charge per person for occupancy and food. Not everyone wants a free for all. The solution is simpler. Don't go if you feel the way you do, but don't spend someone else's money.

My location suits the Bar Mitzvah boy and DH. Similarly, the weekend may have suited the kallah.


I, for one, don't need a solution because no one I know is likely to make a weekend simcha that excludes kids.
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