 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Relationships
-> Simcha Section
amother
|
 Thu, Apr 24 2014, 11:59 am
| Ruchel wrote: | | Some see dirt and noise and some see their little nephews and nieces or cousins. Not everyone has a dozen siblings who will get married and not everyone is constantly invited to tons of smachos. You people take things for granted it's not even believable... |
Ruchel these babies are not family or the children of close friends. I would not even recognize them unless they were with their mother.
Some see a simcha. Others see it as an opportunity for a free meal. One person said to me she always wanted to go to the place I am having the simcha so she will be sure to come.
| |
|
| Back to top |
 1
 1
|
mandr
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 12:00 pm
|
I nurse my baby (he doesn't take formula) and take him wherever I go. But then, I don't go often. If I take my baby to a wedding it's just for a few minutes while I say Mazel Tov. I wouldn't bring a baby to a wedding during the meal unless it was my own sibling's wedding. I think it's weird to ask people to not bring babies. Baby is family so if you invite "and family" then expect babies. Just like it's preposterous to invite everyone except for people with pointy shoes who might shatter my metatarsal while dancing. Or people whose hands sweat rivers during dancing.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
amother
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 12:01 pm
| Simple1 wrote: | | I, for one, don't need a solution because no one I know is likely to make a weekend simcha that excludes kids. |
And what if they want to?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 12:05 pm
| mandr wrote: | | I nurse my baby (he doesn't take formula) and take him wherever I go. But then, I don't go often. If I take my baby to a wedding it's just for a few minutes while I say Mazel Tov. I wouldn't bring a baby to a wedding during the meal unless it was my own sibling's wedding. I think it's weird to ask people to not bring babies. Baby is family so if you invite "and family" then expect babies. Just like it's preposterous to invite everyone except for people with pointy shoes who might shatter my metatarsal while dancing. Or people whose hands sweat rivers during dancing. |
I am not inviting families. If I were inviting families then I would exclude babies. The caterer charges adult prices for kids.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
Ruchel
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 12:09 pm
You can invite fewer people too. I regret that we invited like 120. Really too much, doesn't have the atmosphere either. If need be I would rather only invite family and a few closest friends and whoever brings kids brings kids. There can be a kid table with cheaper food or even a buffet...
Now thos who go to simcha for free meal, that's awful.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
chaiz
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 12:11 pm
| ectomorph wrote: | Didn't read the whole thread.
Just don't invite them.
But honestly, it doesn't sound like a very Jewish attitude. We love children and are willing to deal with the mess because we know that the more neshamos (souls) who participate in our simchas, the better. |
It is not an unJewish attitude to understand that children and adults are not the same. There are places that are simply not set up for kids and often enough simchos are not really kid friendly. I wonder how many kids really enjoy simchos; it is not meant for them. And are not toddlers and young kids supposed to be sleeping or winding down at the time of most simchos? I am really not sure it is good thing for most kids themselves.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
7
|
Simple1
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 12:41 pm
| amother wrote: | | And what if they want to? |
Everyone is entitled to make their simcha as they want to, and I don't have to like it. But inviting for a Shabbos weekend simcha without kids is a foreign concept in my immediate circle, so I can't see it happening. Most that I know of only put up close family anyway for such an event.
For an evening simcha, most people I know leave young kids and babies at home except sometimes for close family - and even then not always.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
Raisin
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 1:24 pm
| heidi wrote: | No Ruchel, ectomorph and raisin would be disappointed at the lack of screaming infants and toddlers getting underfoot.
OP, why ask a rav?? What halacha does this pertain to? It is a matter of personal preference, and as the baalat simcha you should be the one deciding. |
Nope. I think it is very inappropriate to bring a baby to a simcha unless explicitly invited. (Although, in some circles this is much more accepted then in others, specifically frum circles where women might have ten or more children and are therefore less likely to be prepared to miss ten years or so worth of simchas. Also, I have noticed Israelis like to bring their kids to everything.) Unless it is exclusively nursing and the baby doesn't take bottles and the only way to come is to bring the baby. In that case I think it is appropriate but I personally would ask if it is ok. If it was not I would skip the simcha or just come for part of it.
I was invited to two weddings recently and I had a nursing baby. Both were "destination" weddings, far away from home. I got a babysitter for my older kids but not for my younger ones When I got the invitation I explained to the hostess that I could only come with my baby and would that be ok and they were absolutely fine with it. Several other guests had small babies or toddlers who also attended the wedding. Some friends, some family. It was a mostly not frum crowd so few other people had nursing babies. One wedding was in a castle so when looking for somewhere private to nurse I ended up nursing with a coat of armour for company. (I guess that qualifies as a fancy wedding)
I made two bas mitvas recently and I made them during the day time and specifically included kids on the invitation. Where I live people will only come if their name is on the invite. So Mrs Sara Cohen and Dina. (it was women only) Most bar/bas mitzvas I have been at have a lot of kid guests.
I also don't like it when we are invited to shabbos events without our kids. In those cases we decline and explain that shabbos is to be spent with our family.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
8
|
Ruchel
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 1:31 pm
|
I can't even imagine going away for a simcha a shabbes (or a week end!) and be expected to afford childcare on top of that. I can't even. Not by frum ppl, not even by higher class and non Jewish pp
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
flowerpower
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 1:36 pm
|
In my circles most people don't bring infants or toddlers to simchas if they are over 3 months. I can't remember the last time I brought a carriage to any simcha. I also think carriages and babies belong home. A bar mitzvah isn't more than three hours usually. Its not like a full wedding where a mitzvah tanz is included. If its siblings and you know they don't get insulted you can send a group general text to them.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
fleetwood
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 1:44 pm
|
Bottom Line, she doesnt want them so LEAVE THEM HOME!! End of story!
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
7
|
amother
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 2:12 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | I can't even imagine going away for a simcha a shabbes (or a week end!) and be expected to afford childcare on top of that. I can't even. Not by frum ppl, not even by higher class and non Jewish pp |
You are worried about childcare for one family. I am worried about the cost of feeding dozens upon dozens of kids. If I invite one family's children then I must invite everyone. There are a lot more kids than adults in my circle. Other than family, I am not inviting any children except BM boy's friends.
As I mentioned my husband and son want a specific place. Pleasing them is more important to me than pleasing random women. I am not comfortable spending thousands more to include non relative's children. I will be throwing a kiddish and all are welcome. I could cut back on the quality of the simcha to do so, but why? My son and husband will not be affected by what happens in the ladies section.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
5
|
amother
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 2:17 pm
| flowerpower wrote: | | In my circles most people don't bring infants or toddlers to simchas if they are over 3 months. I can't remember the last time I brought a carriage to any simcha. I also think carriages and babies belong home. A bar mitzvah isn't more than three hours usually. Its not like a full wedding where a mitzvah tanz is included. If its siblings and you know they don't get insulted you can send a group general text to them. |
My siblings and nieces can bring their babies. I am not anti-baby. My family's presence is essential. The babies I am concerned about are not family.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
imaima
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 3:18 pm
| amother wrote: | You are worried about childcare for one family. I am worried about the cost of feeding dozens upon dozens of kids. If I invite one family's children then I must invite everyone. There are a lot more kids than adults in my circle. Other than family, I am not inviting any children except BM boy's friends.
As I mentioned my husband and son want a specific place. Pleasing them is more important to me than pleasing random women. I am not comfortable spending thousands more to include non relative's children. I will be throwing a kiddish and all are welcome. I could cut back on the quality of the simcha to do so, but why? My son and husband will not be affected by what happens in the ladies section. |
So what's the question about? Why is it even a shaila? Just tell them not to bring kids? I organized an event once and I said not to bring kids. The majority of people didn't bring and we had a nice time. Somehow everyone understood "why not" even though not everyone liked it.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
SplitPea
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 3:45 pm
I guess your question is what do you do NOW?
Your husband does not want it on the invitation. You don't want babies (one thing to keep in mind if you call 8 people and say "please leave the baby at home or don't come" and then a person you DIDN'T call brings a baby not thinking there is a problem those 8 people you called will be REALLY upset.
I think the whole baby/no baby thing at OTHER simchas is a moot point. This is YOUR simcha. How can we help you brainstorm how to make it how you wish now that you can't/won't put it on the invitation.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
5
|
Fox
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 3:51 pm
| amother wrote: | | My siblings and nieces can bring their babies. I am not anti-baby. My family's presence is essential. The babies I am concerned about are not family. |
If the problem is space for strollers/car seats and potential interruptions, I don't see how siblings'/nieces' babies are different than the babies of other attendees. A stroller takes up the same amount of space whether it belongs to a relative or an acquaintance. And the babies of family members don't cry any less than random babies off the street.
I'm beginning to get the sense that this is less about the babies and more about some of the people you are being pressured to invite.
Unfortunately, it is the rare simcha that only includes the people we want. Most simchas, even modest ones, end up including neighbors, business or work colleagues, and even "frenemies" who must be invited for one reason or another. Most of us, in the end, are able to hone our memories on the happiness of the occasion rather than the simmering resentments and annoyances that accompany it.
That said, you have a perfect excuse: call potential offenders well ahead of time and offer a lengthy, abject apology:
| Quote: | | Hinda Malka, I'm so sorry, but I'm afraid I'm having to ask our friends not to bring their babies to Shloimie's bar mitzvah seuda. I feel just awful, but you know my husband and Shloimie wanted so badly to have the seuda at the shul, and I just couldn't say 'no' to them even though it meant that we'll have virtually no space on the ladies' side. And then my sister just had a baby a few months ago and three of my nieces have newborns! Can you imagine? Well, it's not practical for them to leave their babies at home, so I gave in and told them to bring them along. But what with all the strollers and whatnot, we're already going to be tripping over one another. I feel just terrible, because I know it's a terrible inconvenience, but I've mapped out the space, and I just don't see how we can do it practically. You know, I had lobbied for a slightly larger venue so that this wouldn't be a problem, but everyone had his heart set on the shul, and I admit it will be lovely. I just wish there were a way to make the ladies' section large enough to accommodate everyone. I do hope you understand and realize how bad I feel. I'm so looking forward to seeing you at the seuda, and blah, blah, blah . . . |
Go on and on until both you and the potential offender are worn out with the whole business.
You may note that this "apology" is designed to sound like you truly regret that you can't accommodate their babies rather than dumping in their laps the stark fact that you don't really like these women and would probably be happier without them, their babies, and their little dogs, too.
And if this "apology" for not doing something you shouldn't have to do anyway sticks a little in your throat, bear in mind that witnessing this little lesson in graciousness under pressure is one of the best bar mitzvah presents your son can receive.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
8
|
amother
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 4:57 pm
|
Fox, We make allowances for family no matter what. It is the sheer number of babies which is the issue. One or two strollers is manageable.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
1
|
Ashrei
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 5:33 pm
I know a non Jewish person who arranged for babysitting services in a separate room from the event, and said so in the invitation.
I would let the nursing infants come though, they usually don't make any trouble and no one even notices them.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 6:14 pm
| Ashrei wrote: | I know a non Jewish person who arranged for babysitting services in a separate room from the event, and said so in the invitation.
I would let the nursing infants come though, they usually don't make any trouble and no one even notices them. |
As one or two would be OK only if they were family. Otherwise I don't see making my guests uncomfortable. In the ladies section in shul the ones with the babies don't realize how they inconvenience others. The sheer number of babies and strollers is the problem.
The schmorg is in one room and the meal is in another. I only have those 2 rooms. There are no rooms for babysitters, daycare centers or for stroller parking.
If I want to rent the rest of the place out, it will be an additional $5000 more plus I will have to pay adult prices for kids plus pay for child minders.
Why should I pay to set up daycare?
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
4
|
Orchid
|
Thu, Apr 24 2014, 9:27 pm
I think it's obnoxious to bring children and to expect a) the baalas simcha to pay for their meals (at adult prices, no less), b) to pay for a babysitter for them onsite, c) to contend with a sudden doubling of attendees.
An invitation addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. So and So" without "AND FAMILY" means exactly that. To all those who wax poetic about yiddeshe children at yiddeshe simchas, there is a time and place for everything. Should there be yiddeshe children everywhere at all times? With you when you are getting a root canal? At the mikvah? At a parent-teacher conference? At a job interview?
Seriously. There are thousands of times and venues that are inappropriate to bring children - a simcha for which they were not invited is one of them.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
10
|
| Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Spinning Babies class
|
5 |
Fri, Apr 12 2024, 5:55 pm  |
|
|
Help- making a simcha at home
|
24 |
Wed, Apr 10 2024, 3:47 pm |
|
|
[ Poll ] Do you get babies and toddlers Shabbos shoes?
|
24 |
Wed, Apr 10 2024, 10:51 am |
|
|
Nail salon that allows babies in?
|
9 |
Tue, Apr 09 2024, 11:58 pm |
|
|
Simcha ettiquete
|
3 |
Tue, Apr 09 2024, 2:37 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
