Need help ASAP!! Please!!

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 11:56 am

imasinger wrote:

Hugs. Deep breaths. You can deal with this.

Let's break it down.

1. Are you sure of the diagnosis? If not, where can you turn for a second opinion?

He has seen a few nurologists (2 or 3 I think) as well as a behavioral pediatrician and a psychologist. I am positive of the diagnosis. We have filled out questionnaires and so has the teacher. Of course his rebbi won't fill out anything because he "doesn't have the time, and anyway it's for the board of Ed and they only look at English." He was originally diagnosed at 3 or 4, but has been reevaluated quite a few times. He has had nurological work ups, board of Ed evals, and a psycho-educational eval. He has had physicals....

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2. If you are sure of the diagnosis, the next issue is treatment. Clearly, OT helps. It looks as if your medication trials thus far have not shown a result that works for you. What are the reports from school about his behavior on them? Is there any chance that the medication is working, but you are observing rebound effect at home? Again, a second opinion may be useful.

I don't really hear anything from the school. When we originally put him on meds on the Rebbis say so, his answer to my husband a few weeks later when asked how it's going in class was "I can't be bothered with those things." I have never heard from the Morah that she has sub problems with him. Maybe she doesn't, or maybe she handles it better, or maybe she just doesn't tell me. What exactly is a rebound effect? I've heard of it, but I'm my really sure.

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3. Has the school recorded what is going on? Do you believe them? Do you or your DH want to observe for yourselves?

I don't know, and I don't know. I think the rebbi has a low tolerance for my son so....I would live to observe, but I'm not sure how ican do that and get a true picture....suggestions?

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4. Is the school helping your DS? Are there other choices that might be a better fit? Chanoch l'na'ar al pi darko.

I honestly don't know if they are helping....there is no other school around here, especial if he is asked not to come back to his current school. I would love a different school....

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HTH! Hang in there.

What does HTH mean? And thank you to you and everyone else for helping me thoug this. I answered some of the other posters questions in your questions, and now I'm going to go back and see if I missed anything.

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 12:28 pm

Take Dr. Koslowitz's Targeted Parenting class. It saved my son's life.....She explains about how the meds work and how to set up a system with the school and the OT and everyone so they all work together. She explains nutritional approaches and what to do about it....
My kid was where your son is - about to be kicked out. Can't tell you the diff.

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 1:15 pm

amother wrote:

Who is she and where can I find her class?

imasinger

Tue, May 06 2014, 1:32 pm

HTH=hope this helps.

To summarize what you have said here:

Your DS has ADHD. The meds you have tried do not appear to be helping him, and may be detrimental.

The school has informed you that your DS "needs to be on meds", reports that he is "noncompliant", and is threatening to kick him out.

His rebbe can't be bothered to document what the problems are, or what his response has been to DS. His morah hasn't given you much more.

I think this is a case of "both/and."

Probably, he had been doing better in class when he was on meds; hence the school's forceful response when you took him off. From what you say, details of that feedback have not been forthcoming, though.

Meds are often very helpful to kids with ADHD. What you see on evenings and weekends cannot provide a full picture. But getting the best medication fit takes time, and you may not be there yet.

The school's attitude is problematic. I think you will need to either get that to change, or move him. Sometimes, it is helpful to schedule a meeting with the rebbe or morah, maybe including a therapist who knows your DS.

In smaller schools in the US, change has been catching on, and Torah Umesorah has done much to create understanding for rebbes. In bigger cities, there are at least a variety of options of schools. Where are you located, that you are so hemmed in?

seeker

Tue, May 06 2014, 2:01 pm

I have plenty to say but above all, I am deeply bothered by the rebbi's attitude here. I would not want my challenged child in his class. If there were no other school in the city, it would be enough to make me either homeschool or move. That is really disturbing that he can be bothered to complain about your kid's behavior but can't be bothered to give detail or even tell you how things are going in class. MAYBE I'd first raise the issue with the principal and administration and see if they respond effectively, but my leaning is to just get O.U.T. Ugh.

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 3:44 pm

imasinger wrote:

I asked him when he came home today how school was. He very enthusiastically answered "good!" I asked him if he got sent out today, and he said twice, because he wasn't doing his work. (Both times were with rebbi.) I asked him why not ad he said cuz he doesn't know it cuz he didn't take the meds. I asked him if he wants to start taking it again and he said yes. I asked him why and he said cuz then he knows the work....
I would love to move him, but I can't with only 5/6 weeks left of school. I would live to switch yeshivas, but I don't think any of the others would take him if he was asked not to come back. If rather not say where we are public ally but I don't mind PMing you.
We have an iep meeting tomorrow morning, and I want EVERYONE there- Morah, principal, school psychologist, his OT....of course I want the rebbi there too but that's not going to happen....
His Morah is not non communicative, I just think that either she is dealing with it better or he is not behaving the same way....I'll fine out tomorrow exactly what is going on in her class

imasinger

Tue, May 06 2014, 3:56 pm

Feel free to pm me if you want, but no pressure.

Definitely don't move him now! I doubt they will truly kick him out so close to yhe end of the year either.

Don't worry too much about the stigma. (Although in the more competetive communities like Lakewood or Brooklyn, you should get advice from those who know the politics.) If you so decide, you can work the meeting tomorrow to get everyone to agree that it was a mutual agreement that the school was not a good fit.

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 4:20 pm

Oh and one more thing- I finally spoke to someone in the office today- our doc is out of town his week ad next!! So no med change until then :-) unless it gets sosososo bad that they threaten to kick him out....

seeker

Tue, May 06 2014, 4:37 pm

Yeah OK no need to drop out with 5 weeks left, as long as he isn't miserable. But if this is the school's general attitude or the other rebbeim are like that too, I'd definitely be looking into options for next year - proactively; it's not the same as "Please take the kid that this school is throwing out" but "We think your school would be better than that one." Still not going to be easy, but come at it from the positive proactive perspective. We can talk all day about alternative solutions to medication, but if the teachers are not interested in working together, it won't help.

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 5:47 pm

Just got off the phone with the teacher. He's been really disruptive since coming back from pesach vacation....she said he gets sent out but definitely not as often as with rebbi. So after a long talk with her, we are going to try the meds again tomorrow and see how it goes. I asked her to please send me home a little note. I really hope I'm doing the right thing....

seeker

Tue, May 06 2014, 6:01 pm

It could be difficulty getting back into the routine after a long vacation. But it seems that the meds did help the problems somewhat, however they also had effects you weren't happy with (perhaps subduing his personality too much?) So this might be a good time to try a different medication or dosage and compare (obviously with the guidance of your doc)

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 6:11 pm

seeker wrote:

Yea, from what the teacher said it sounds like it DID help, so we will try again tomorrow. It will take a little bit for his body to get reaclimated, but hopefully by Monday he will be good. Not doing anything about changing med or dosage until our doctor comes back. There are definitely things that need to be talked about, but I will do that with our doc when he comes back. For now, they will just have to deal for the next week and a half.....my poor kid, I just want to hold him and hug him and keep him home with me for the next two weeks....but I can't cuz I work :-(

debsey

Wed, May 07 2014, 1:44 pm

bump

Last edited by debsey on Sun, May 11 2014, 5:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

SRK

Thu, May 08 2014, 1:41 am

is it a specific time? how to register?

amother

Sun, May 11 2014, 5:05 pm

amother wrote:

Who is she and where can I find her class?

Dr. Koslowitz is a psychologist in Lakewood - she put together parenting classes to help parents before they need therapy, and just to walk parents through the whole process of having kids like ours. She's amazing. It saved my kid's life, literally. Because then I knew all the different therapies out there, and I had this whole plan for how to work with my kid based on my kid's brain and how it works. She literally gives you a step by step plan and best thing (for me at least) is it is NOT therapy. She's very clear on that - it's a parenting class. My dh is very very against therapy but he had no problem with this. I know she canceled class this week because she is at Torah Umesorah - maybe ask your principal to check it out and see if it would be good for your son?
She basically teaches you these skills for how to work with this type of kid, and then she also teaches how this type of brain works, why the meds sometimes don't help and what to tell the doctor. She talks about nutrition. I feel a million times smarter and I totally get how to help my kid now.
Sorry I'm anonymous to protect my kid - I'd totally let you PM me to discuss.
BTW, the class is a webinar, so you can do it from wherever.

amother

Sun, May 11 2014, 6:15 pm

Op here. So he was back on medication last week....went to sleep after 10:00 every night, woke up the past two days at 6:30 and 5:00, complained every day about stomach pain, and was bonkers on either Thursday or Friday....
My husband said no more meds till the doc comes back next week, and the school will just have to deal....

amother

Mon, May 12 2014, 6:26 pm

I'm telling you - Dr. K explains the whole thing - I dk about you, but when we gave my son meds, the Dr. didn't explain how they work, what the side effects are, how to manage side effects, what foods he should and shouldn't eat on the meds - Dr. K explained the whole thing to me. When I told my dr., he kind of shrugged and acted like it's obvious (if you don't tell me to make sure to give the medicine really early or he won't fall asleep, how am I supposed to know? I'm not the one who went to medical school!) I'm lucky I took the class. I didn't know that ADHD medication makes them not sleep and that you have to give it super early in the A.M.! But I learned that in the class..... and a whole lot of other things like that. How to get him to eat since the meds also killed his appetite - all sorts of things.
Her office # is 732-364-3111. You don't have to live in Lakewood - there is webinar hookup during class.

amother

Tue, May 13 2014, 10:05 am

Can someone please explain to me why a rebbe would feel free to say that a child MUST be on a medication? I can understand saying - he's not functional in my classroom, and something must be done. But how can they just say medicate without being medical professionals? It drives me crazy!

kol_yom

Tue, May 13 2014, 12:50 pm

first let me say how sorry I am that you are going through this, I know how difficult this is!
my son will be bar mitzvah next year and we ran around to neurologists, psychiatrists, psychologists, OTherapists etc etc for over 5 years until we got a diagnosis, plan and routine.
every day has been a challenge to put it mildly. besides for having adhd he also suffers from some severe psychological issues.
last year, as much as I was against meds I agreed first to have him put on Stratera (a combination of adhd medication and anti-depressant) because I was desperate for SOMETHING to happen. the results were disastrous. he now not only had psychological/neurological hardships but side effects that caused him to have headaches, stomachaches, tiredness etc. we took him off it after trying to "push through" the side-effects to no avail.
then the doc suggested anti depressants. again I didn't want but agreed out of desperation to help my child. I must say within weeks he was a new child. suddenly he was talking (selective mutism until then), suddenly he had a spark in his eyes... everyone noticed that he is happier.
but the adhd problem was still there. and now that he was more interactive it was also becoming a much bigger problem.
until then he would be left on the sidelines in class. meaning he wouldn't follow along, he would do what he wanted but because he made no sound the teachers were fine with it(so wrong! but that's another topic) but now that he was being vocal too they called with complaints. they didn't know he is or was on any meds. and they didn't demand anything of the sort (in Europe things are not so out in the open in the chareidi community like in ny or Israel). but they deff. said soemthign needs to change.
so we went back to the doc (we have an amazing team of psychiatrist - psychologist/therapist - OT who work together in the same clinic so everything can always quickly be brought to the table). they suggested concerta. he started taking them and voila - again the side effects. and his great mood was gone. the effect anti-depressant was blocked by the side effects to concerta. the doc was surprised. she has never had such a case before. so we made a trial run. four weeks of meds where 2 weeks were the real thing and 2 week were placebo.
bottom line. the teachers without knowing anything that we were doing mentioned to us an amzing improvement in his concentration, in his behavior etc. (in the weeks that he was taking the real thing)
I as well noticed it at home. but more so with his side effects then the positive parts... Sad

but the side effects and the returned severe depression were awful. he refused to take it. on pessach he simply refused. he said no and of course I wasn't going to force it down his throat.
being that I was against medicating in the first place but wanted what was best for my child I was in a dilemma here. on the one hand the school is saying it definitely made a difference and he is a new kid, on the other hand he was miserable! he even acknowledged that the concerta was helping him immsenly but he was willing to forgo all that just too feel good - and I agree.
so back we went to the clinic and it was decided his emotional stability and wellbeing was more important than his teachers being happy with a quiet kid. I had a meeting with the school too. they agreed to use some techniques with him after discussing it with the therapist. so for the next few weeks until end of the school year we will how it works. he definetly is trying much harder to prove that he can achieve in his learning without the concerta (I must ad that he is ka"h a genius, so its not like he is losing out in knowledge, it just working along like all the other kids etc...that is a problem for the school)
anyways, here is the point I wanted to say that might be of help to you: his psychiatrist suggested that he take a vitamin B complex to see if it might improve some of the adhd issues now. she says its deff not as effective as the meds he would need to take but it could boost a bit. it takes a few weeks to start kicking in and showing effect but we decided to try it. maybe that could be something worth trying too?
I wish you loads of hatzlacha!