Putting daughter in Public school b/c can't afford tuition

amother

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:08 am

I think a lot of posters are responding here who a) have their children in frum schools or b) have very young children in public school.

I send my children to a not frum school. I live out of town and that is the only option. The Jewish subjects are taught by mostly frum people and there are a few other shomer shabbos families but the vast majority of kids are not frum. Many are not even Jewish. We are chabad so it is especially hard for my kids since we don't do things like mixed swimming, cinema or even getting an ice cream since we keep Chalav yisrael. My kids are very very happy in school. The teachers are great. They are amazing with my kid who has mild special needs - I honestly can't imagine him doing as well in a chabad cheder type school. But as they get older while they still like school their social life is terrible and they have hardly any friends.

When they are about 12 we pull them out of that school and send them away to frum school. hard as it is to have them away for both them and me there is no way I can leave them in that enviroment.

Other M.O families (no chareidi people here) who send their kids to this school all the way through do so with mixed results. Some kids stay frum, some not frum but traditional, some marry out.

vintagebknyc

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:27 am

proudema wrote:

Forgot to add; my mother sold her jewelry to pay for tuition. So yes, I know of what I speak when I talk of sacrifice. I'm not some wealthy person spouting advice about a situation I would never be in. I could easily be in OP's place. I feel OP's pain. But I am equally horrified how people here are so flippant about putting a child in public school.

perhaps OP does not have her mother's jewelry to sell?

I have an idea: OP should rent out her womb to be a surrogate to a family who needs children. or find a place where she can sell her kidney on the black market. /sarcasm.

she does not need people railing on her for a decision that was likely very hard to come to. ideal, no. doable, yes. frankly, if public school is so perfect for everyone's special needs children, then the OP can make it work for her daughter.

stop upsetting her. give her some chizzuk. otherwise you're just spending your time upsetting her, and I'm sure nobody wants to upset her on purpose. maybe all the criticizers would like to sell their kidney's for the OPs daughter's tuition... didn't think so.

Barbara

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:32 am

proudema wrote:

I grew up in Brooklyn. Call me whatever names you like. This is a massive problem. It's not so simple as no money ok public school here we come. Did OP speak with her Rav? Did she go to other Jewish schools and beg them to work with her? Just listen to what Rabbi Mizrachi has to say about sending kids to public schools. My father is in chinuch and if he would hear of a Jewish kid in public school he would not rest until he convinced the parents to take the kid out and he would find a yeshiva who would take that child. You can poo poo it all you want. A child's neshama is worth more then a tuition. And yes, sending a child to public school can do untold damage to their neshama. This world is not about what's easy, easier or easiest. This world is about doing what's RIGHT. One thing if there's no Jewish schools anywhere near you, or if a child is special ed and needs the services the public school offers. It's a completely different story when the only factor is money. (And btw, your analogy to Marie Antoinette makes zero sense Rolling Eyes

)

Its very kind of you to volunteer to pay the tuition of OP's child. I'm sure Yael will be pleased to act as an intermediary.

Otherwise, you're just being deliberately cruel.

What do you really think is going to happen to this child in second grade. Sure, things will be a little difficult for her. She's going to have to say no to sharing snacks, and may well miss a few parties that she'd really like to attend, because they're on Shabbat or chagim. But otherwise, most second grade girls are pretty similar, no matter what schools they attend. Moreover, its not all that difficult to "catch up" with limudei kodesh at a second grade level.

In any case, why do you believe that Judaism is so fragile that if a child has any exposure to the secular world, she will necessarily abandon Judasim?

Barbara

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:35 am

proudema wrote:

Let's see. Three kids. Average tuition, what, about $12,000 per kid per year? Your mom had close to half a million dollars worth of jewelry to sell? Most people with that kind of jewelry can afford school, but who am I to argue with your mother?

OP tells us that she already has debt that she needs to clear. It doesn't sound like she has half a million in jewelry laying around.

SRS

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 12:27 pm

proudema-I'm another vote that you are being cruel. The OP shouldn't need to sell her jewelry unless she has stupidly put her financial footing at risk via the acquisition of stuff, buying while she should have been paying her tuition bills that are past due for example.

She should be able to pay the tuition asked of her from annual income, not go into debt to meet those costs and the regular costs of operating an affordable home and feed 3 children, and while living a frugal life (which by me doesn't include cleaning services, vacations, camps that aren't a fill in for needed daycare, manicures, individually packed snacks, or nightly fleishigs).

If she can't meet tuition and make a *home* for her family, then she is being squeezed. My experience is that when a family is really "dirt poor" that the schools step up to the plate. That is not the experience of parents who are being squeezed beyond what is really reasonable. For those parents the experience is a bitter one and might not be the best for their religious experience.

Yelling at the OP that she is killing her child, without sending a check to the school to "save her child" is not helpful. I think we can be supportive of families who can't make it happen while still being supportive of Jewish education. And the best thing that can happen for imo Jewish education is that the price be brought DOWN while future incoming families are weened off of the scholarship process that is driving rates to 42K for a family of 3.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:00 pm

SRS wrote:

My response is not to the OP it's to the poster (I'm sorry I don't remember who) who called me a "Marie Antoinette" and said putting a child in public school is not a big deal. To the OP I have stated nothing but sympathy. I did not suggest she sell her jewelry. Again, that was a response to the poster who thinks I'm a wealthy person who talks out of her a** and is holier than thou on other peoples tzuris. Which is not the case. And to prove it, I stated how I was raised and what my parents sacrificed.

To the OP I was not cruel. I was sympathetic and in pain with her as I can easily be in her shoes.

Do not call me cruel if you did not follow the entire conversation and thread.

I await your apology but I'm not holding my breath.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:04 pm

Barbara wrote:

I DID NOT suggest OP sell her jewelry. If you did not follow the entire thread don't make comments on one posting! That comment was directed at another poster who suggested I was speaking down to the OP and I was being holier than thou without having experienced financial hardship. I grew up with zero money. My mother sold her jewelry to HELP pay for tuition. Not to cover it. Ha! Way to take that out of context. It was NOT a suggestion to OP. Again, read through a thread before making comments. Especially hurtful ones.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:08 pm

Barbara wrote:

Its very kind of you to volunteer to pay the tuition of OP's child. I'm sure Yael will be pleased to act as an intermediary.

Otherwise, you're just being deliberately cruel.

Deliberately cruel? Applause

wow! You reached through your computer and read into my emotions! Wow!!! With such a talent why are you wasting your time on the internet? You can be making money with your knowledge into others emotions and feelings. And then you can pay for everyone's tuitions so we can all live happily ever after! Yay you! Rolling Eyes

Barbara

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:12 pm

proudema wrote:

ROFL*.

You told a woman who has tried every which way to send her children to Jewish schools, but who has now concluded that she must send a second grader to public school that she is doing "untold damage to her neshama." Accused her of violating halacha. On and on.

And you accuse ME of being hurtful?

And for the record, people who grow up in abject poverty (which I assume the OP is not) don't have jewelry to sell. And certainly not enough jewelry of the kind that would help finance tuition. So you clearly didn't grow up with "zero money."

Barbara

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:13 pm

proudema wrote:

Deliberately cruel? Applause

thank you for confirming my conclusion that you're a b****.

SRS

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:13 pm

I will apologize, but I did read through the entire thread and Barbara also got the same vibe. I'm glad you received a yeshiva education despite your circumstances. I think it is becoming very difficult for those who are in the "dirt poor" classification, whatever that is, and who are served by the schools despite their circumstances to relate to those in the 30K, 40K, and 50K payment categories on salaries that are not multiple times as much. It is as if we live in two different universes.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:23 pm

I just want to add:

To the OP I am truly sorry you are in this situation. If any of my posts made u feel like I am not. I am sorry. I feel your Pain and I was up a lot last night thinking of how horrible this is. None of this is your fault. I have a burning anger towards whatever community you live in, towards the school, towards your Rav. Anyone who did not step up and assist you when you informed them of what you need to do because you can't afford tuition. It's disgusting. I will daven for you and for your daughter that Hashem guide you on the right direction.

proudema

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 1:27 pm

Barbara wrote:

thank you for confirming my conclusion that you're a b****.

Yep. Sometimes I really am. (And who among us isn't at times Tongue Out

)When the situation calls for it. Like when someone calls me deliberately cruel. Like they know me or something. You could have said, my posts can be hurtful to OP. But you chose the words "deliberately cruel". That's on you.

And my mother only had jewelry from her wedding. The stuff she was given as gifts. My parents can't afford jewelry. Heck, they can't afford the clothes on their back. Sad

it's hard.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:07 pm

I laugh a lot that people who speak of public school don't seem to know how it is.

How is it?

It's different by country, city, neighbourhood... (of course era).

I can quote charedim rabbis who will say a clean public school is better than a Jewish one that is a wrong fit. As in a charedi school for a lite MO, or opposite. PS is neutral.

Problems: assimilation (very dependent on your kid's personality, in any case read hold on to your kids), lack of kodesh if the child won't be motivated by the supplement.

YES some Jewish schools will not work with you, YES some kik you out and don't tell you where to address or even say the local PS is good. Sometimes also there is only one J school in the city and it only takes x or y families and you're not that type.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 2:15 pm

Hi, I saw this post on facebook so I'm posting it here, in the hopes that it could help someone that is looking for an affordable yeshiva instead of sending to public school. note: I don't know anything about it other than what's written in this post on facebook, so call them and do your own research if it's applicable to you.

posted by Chaya Pollack
23 mins
b*h finally a new co ed school opened up in flatbush very cheap 150 a month any one looking to send there kids they should call them up its called yeshiva academy 3472434627 its grades from 5 years old untill 12th grade they even have bus transportation for free if u have money problems u should try this cheap school out and if u cant afford it they said its free wow

amother because I have no connection to the school and I can't say whether it's good or not, call them or research if you have questions