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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
What Do You Get When You Mix ADHD, And Extreme Defiance?
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:15 pm
pelle wrote:
don't know if it's possible for you, but are you able to have special alone time out with each of your other children? like a rotation every other week that child gets their night out with just one of you? meaning you or your husband. your difficult child should be included in the rotation.


In theory it's a great idea and we do try to give each child their time. But in reality, many times we both need to be on hand on guard duty and all we're focusing on is keeping the other kids safe, him out of danger, and the house from caving in.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:22 pm
debsey wrote:
Therapy! Lots and lots. Parenting classes. And then, very well earned nachas. Trust me. Been there.


We've already done and continue to do therapy. Lots and lots!!! Parenting classes you say? I think at this point I can probably start giving some classes Smile I am looking forward to the well earned nachas. I just daven that we will have it. Some days look so positive and we think we're actually getting somewhere and then.... I guess it's 2 steps forward one step back type of thing.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:26 pm
But I have to say that there's so much positive and so much humor and spunk and fun. I wish I could bottle it and save it for the tough moments/days. We need to remember to appreciate the positive attributes and not let it get drowned out by the negatives.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:30 pm
amother wrote:
This sounds like my life. I have a child who is diagnosed ADHD, ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) as well as acute anxieties. She is a teenager now and behavior is out of control most days with little kids witnessing daily outbursts of curses and foul language.

I have other children with other issues as well that are extremely taxing.

We have been in therapy for so many years and I have to say what is working the most for me now is a new parenting class that I am taking that doesn't let me use their excuses to understand/warrant bad behavior. They are meant to be treated like regular children and this change has to come from me. I am learning to see my kids in a different light and to not feel guilty for their behavior. I am realizing that they have to bear responsibility for their own actions and I have to stop my involvement in certain issues. I am giving a gift to my kids to grow up independently, be responsible and learn to adapt and be productive in our family and society. Shefer Approach This is totally the opposite of other methods I have tried from years of therapy and finally, I see a ray of hope. Maybe look into this.

The diagnosis of these labels doesn't have to change anything - in fact, it worsens the situation because now you see your kids as capable of terrible things instead of the best that they can be. I am learning to see my kids in a positive light and I am getting rid of the guilt that perhaps I haven't done enough.


Thanks - something to look into.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:40 pm
amother wrote:

I do think that we cannot lose focus of who REALLY is suffering the most though - the child! Ever candidly speak to them about how they feel about themselves? Ever truly assess their self worth? Let me tell you from a personal and professional standpoint - most of these kids feel like garbage :'( They feel like the "bad" kids, like there's no hope for them, that they will never measure up to "regular" kids. They have extreme guilt and remorse - in the moment it's so so difficult to control themselves - and once they've realized what they've done (turn back to "themselves"), they crave crawling under the house... Hashem yerachem they suffer so much, no one should belittle that :'( :'(

Yes, they need firm limits. Most families need some sort of therapy or parent training/coaching. Shalom bayis... if only the world realized how hard this "secret problem" is on us... If only they actually did give out parenting awards - you know we'd all get one Wink Wink

Hatzlacha - you're not alone. Maybe we could form some sort of support group? Part of the pain is definitely the isolation... :'( :'( I'd be on board!


I agree with you somewhat. But we are so busy building and this particular child that our needs and other children's needs don't get met. I know that these children suffer but sometimes when you see the price everyone else is paying it's hard to just focus on the fact that they feel bad about themselves. They need to have a sense of responsibility for their actions.
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newme




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:48 am
I have to second teh recommendation for teh shefer approach.
I went to parenting classes teaching this method and it saved my family and my sanity,
It's plain common sense and a lot of inner work that positively impacts every aspect of my life, not just parenting Exclamation
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:07 am
Is this a book or a course? There's nothing on the website just names of related links.
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newme




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 10 2014, 3:08 am
In Israel there are many parenting courses given according to this method - but mostly in Hebrew. I don't know of any other resources Sad
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 10 2014, 8:25 am
and I went to a course based on that approach and felt it was not good at all

I believe you need to understand the child has difficultes but adhd can also be positive if they learn to use their tools properly - the problem is getting them to use those tools properly!
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newme




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 10 2014, 8:29 am
From discussions I have had with people who have gone through the course without feeling benefited I have almost always felt that they did not correctly understand the premises the course is based upon.
Like everything though, it has to taken within limits (not to an extreme), and applied with common sense.
Personally, I gained immensely from the principles it emphasizes.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 10 2014, 10:03 am
Truthfully, the day I started this post was a tough day and I was beyond frustrated.

My kid has so many attributes because/in spite of ADHD and anxiety. He is a character! He can be tons of fun, smart, witty, and caring.

Although it's tough, I think I need to embrace it more and accept it. I do not need to accept bad behavior but I need to accept him. He needs to know that we love and accept him unconditionally.
Staying unemotional is also something that helps avoid fireworks. As soon as I respond with even a drop of negative emotion the situation turns volatile.

So basically it's a work in progress just like everything else in life. And a big opportunity for me to work on my middos Smile
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 06 2014, 5:16 pm
Another amother

I think I'm going to be coming to this forum a lot in future; we're just starting our diagnosis and treatment journey aka quest for help. I identify a lot with what people have written on this thread, the positives and the huge challenges. Scared of the future, but also relieved that we're finally taking action (I feel guilty it took us so long).

Thanks for being out there and for chizzuk!
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amother


 

Post Thu, Aug 07 2014, 11:05 am
Good luck on your journey (roller coaster ride!)
Feel free to post any questions. I'd be happy if my experience can help someone else as well.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Aug 09 2014, 7:32 pm
A mother here with a child like this who's now in his mid 20's and married B"H.
Is he a success story? For him, yes. We didn't think he'd be frum with all his ADHD & ODD. Is his life easy , no he struggles. His wife is a gem though & being that she has no baggage with him can give him the unconditional love that we his parents & his siblings cannot.
Though we love him , his attitude & his ODD anger is there in every interaction with us. His siblings for the most part keep their distance.
He can be sweet & charming & funny but he can also be defiant, angry & very hurtful. He treats me the worst as he can get more of an emotional response.
I'm trying to communicate with DIL exclusively.
He refuses any ongoing therapy or medication for years now . Claims we have a problem not him.
Did our younger kids suffer? Yeah.
I would take them out of school individually once a month for mommy time. But there's no denying that they have been effected by what can only be described as a monster sibling.
Could we have done thing differently? Yes, I'm sure. Maybe if he was an only child? Maybe. But he wasn't. I think we did our best with what we had.
Unfortunately, things just don't magically get better. The challenges change.
He's still awful to have around. He's not able to hold down a job. He lives his life blaming everyone else for his failures...
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amother


 

Post Sat, Aug 09 2014, 9:49 pm
I can't recommend Dr. Koslowitz's Targeted Parenting classes highly enough. She has a class SPECIFICALLY on this child, called "The Highly Reactive Child." It's ten weeks, she has about 10 mothers per class (Fathers can skype in, and mothers who don't reside in Lakewood also skype in.) She explains everything about this kind of child, how to work with him, how to work your other kids needs around him, how to deal with the school, how to understand medication and if you do or don't need to give it to the child - she literally gives you a plan for every minute of this child's day. I'm SUCH a believer, it saved my life! It is NOT the typical parenting class, which just made me feel like a failure. She explains how the typical child is lightyears away from "our" kids (She calls them Target Kids) and that what works for the typical child won't work for our kids. I just felt so supported in the class, and it's a year later, I'm still using the entire approach. She gives this whole workbook that explains everything. It's amazing. I'm so glad she does skype now because my sister is taking her class on anxious kids, and it wasn't available to her (she doesn't live in Lakewood) before this.
OP, you asked about dealing with the siblings - she spends so much time on this, because I also found that the hardest. They get jealous, they don't understand why he's not getting as many consequences as they do when they misbehave, he gets on their nerves, he ruins their stuff........this gave me exactly what I needed.......
Anon cuz my son deserves his privacy, although I rave about the classes IRL.......
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 10 2014, 1:44 am
Two things come to mind. 1. Did he become more defiant after being on Ritalin? 2. Are you sure the defiance is not a result of s-xual abuse? I ask because these are the two things that caused extreme defiance in our son. Ritalin was very wrong for him, increasing his anxiety and violent behavior. And actually, no meds helped because bottom line was DS was hiding the fact that he'd been s-xually, verbally, emotionally, and physically abused at cheder.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 10 2014, 10:07 am
I am the DIL [not yours amother]

How is the wife handling this nature?

U don't know because she won't tell you.

I am the wife of ADD husband and its tough.

This is my single biggest worry for my ADD son

How and to whom will I marry him off?
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amother


 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 8:42 am
amother wrote:
I am the DIL [not yours amother]

How is the wife handling this nature?

U don't know because she won't tell you.

I am the wife of ADD husband and its tough.

This is my single biggest worry for my ADD son

How and to whom will I marry him off?


I'm the amother. You're right I really only know what I see. She's a beautiful neshama, easy going & patient.
I worry for her. I worry how she will manage their future kids who may also have ADHD.
I'm there for her. He treats her well. I just wish he'd support her too.
How do you handle it?
I want to help but not interfere. I wish she'd get him to take Ritalin, but I can't bring that up with her.
My heart is heavy with worry. I can't tell you how much sleep I've lost over this child. An child in an adult body.
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