Moving Out of Town Pros Vs Cons

amother

Mon, Jul 21 2014, 9:49 am

CON: politics
If I'm only the one mentioning this then ignore. but I've had too many friends move very out of town and the community is small - so there is one school, one shul, one rav. If you get on the wrong side there is no choice but to move out. And if someone is a teacher they go to shul with the entire parent body of their school. And again the politics that can come with being a teacher in a small school.

Ruchel

Mon, Jul 21 2014, 12:35 pm

A place with minyan on holidays is absolutely not the same as a place with several Jewish schools and daily minyan.
Country? continent? number of Jews? proximity to a big city? how much travel to mikve, butchery, does meat need to be shipped/delivered (make sure they can deliver outside of shabbes), shul in walking distance or home davening, do you homeschool, send away (rarely exists under 10), is the Jewish school ok or will you be the 1% frummie, do people public school, is there a bus carpool or do people drive (you drive? can dh drive before school?) etc etc etc

amother

Mon, Jul 21 2014, 12:48 pm

"amother CON: politics
If I'm only the one mentioning this then ignore. but I've had too many friends move very out of town and the community is small - so there is one school, one shul, one rav. If you get on the wrong side there is no choice but to move out. And if someone is a teacher they go to shul with the entire parent body of their school. And again the politics that can come with being a teacher in a small school."

HOW TRUE!!! I cant believer I forgot this in my post. (im the amother who moved from OOT to nyc) bh we personally never dealt with politics, but in small towns, where mostly everyone is pretty friendly and warm, if there is any tension btwn anybody the entire town knows it.
oh, and dont get me started on different levels of religion in a small town. can be a nightmare.

MaBelleVie

Mon, Jul 21 2014, 1:14 pm

amother wrote:

IME, there can be a lot more achdut among those with different levels of religion in a smaller city. Big cities tend to be more segregated.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, Jul 21 2014, 1:30 pm

Agree with MBV on more tolerance for various levels or minhagim within the Jewish community -- which to me is a pro, while also agreeing with the amothers about politics being very, very hard to deal with -- a con.

I grew up in a small, OOT community and live in a larger one now. But both have the main infrastructure needed. They don't compare to tiny pockets with barely a minyan (like where my mother grew up).

Dina_B613

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 3:28 am

I don't think kosher food OOT has to be more expensive - depends on what you eat. If you eat a lot of parve foods that aren't frummie brands, the only time where you're paying significantly more is during Pesach.
Yes, pat yisrael pretzels will cost more + be harder to find OOT - but do you really need pretzels that badly? The only thing I can't get when visiting family and friends in remote places are meat, cheese, and balsamic vinegar. My ex's grandparents lived in a city in the midwest that is completely off the beat and path, and we always found plenty of kosher food - including meats and cheeses.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:03 am

Dina_B613 wrote:

This is true. I should specify that the only products we pay more for are chicken, meat, sometimes cheese (we do have sales on that, and it's expensive everywhere IMO) and the occasional item that regular supermarkets don't carry. The regular supermarkets are actually cheaper/ better sales than what I see in the NY area. So we just try to limit those specifically kosher products.

amother

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:40 am

Yes. We pay much less than the NYC area for all regular groceries, produce, cleaning supplies, etc. It is kosher specific items that are more expensive. Depending on exactly which community you may be able to make periodic trips to stock up on these things.

In smaller OOT communities (not Baltimore or Chicago) things are less divided. This has pros and cons depending on point of view. Your children will know not only people of different levels of frumkeit but all levels of yiddishkeit and the community is less likely to be closed off. You will be conscious that people judge religious people based on the ones that they see and that means you. There may be non-religious children in your kids' school and probably on your block, and it's more important to be friendly and not snobbish.

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 9:57 am

Dina_B613 wrote:

Depends where.
In many places there is NO chalav Israel or it's bad and prohibitive.
If you eat everything with a hechsher as opposed to from a list, it's a killer. The very few "ultra Orthodox" in my MIL's city pay through the nose for shipping or eat basically everything from scratch. And no dairy.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 10:01 am

Ruchel wrote:

This thread is about the US specifically, so that isn't applicable.

amother

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 10:09 am

I moved from Lakewood to Richmond, Virginia three years ago and we LOVE IT.

1) No SCHOOL DRAMA! When I learned that we were moving here the first thing I did was look up the local yeshiva day school and call to see what their "acceptance" policy was. The principal basically laughed at me at said, "what policy? If your kids are Jewish they are welcome!" In my oldest's class you have a really nice mix of kids of all Jewish backgrounds, from kollel families to Reform. I think it's amazing and we are all sensitive to each other.

2) Friendly and warm people, very little "jappiness." Much less judgement regarding personal observance and practice.

3) MUCH more affordable to live. We are able to get a small selection of decently priced kosher meat in town. If you want something special its very easy to get it delivered and often times people are running up to Silver Spring or Baltimore and will offer to get you something.

4) We have two minyan choices (at the Yeshiva or the Orthodox shul...3 if you count Chabad thats on the other side of town), at least 4 Jewish day camps (including backyard camps), etc.

I guess for me it's really the people that won me over! My kids have so many friends and are constantly being invited over to kids houses. In Lakewood I found it very hard to fit in and often times was very lonely.

MaBelleVie

Tue, Jul 22 2014, 10:53 am

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

For all those that live out of town or moved out of town. What is your opinion? What were the positive and negative aspects of picking yourself up out of your comfort zone and starting over? Please be very honest. TIA

OP, please precise the country Wink

Two posts down she clarified that by in town she meant Brooklyn/Lakewood.

amother

Mon, Sep 15 2014, 10:10 am

amother who lives in a tiny community but can send to a school in a larger one that has good academics.. .do you mind posting where you live?
you amother after all Smile

we are looking for a community and schooling is crucial.

Also general question for people who moved out of town- how do you deal with lack of family? Right now the only people who babysit for us are family members- I sometimes need during the day for a doctors appointment.... prefer frum, needs to be adult....

Just in general right now we live near both our families.... I think my husband will be much happier OOT though....

LittleDucky

Mon, Sep 15 2014, 11:42 am

zaq wrote:

This post proves the incredible provincialism of Brooklyn Jews. Doesn't matter which town? Are you for real?

Hey, I grew up OOT. When I went away for camp, I was asked if my parents were farmers. shock

Um, no. My parents probably have higher degrees than their fathers but "I" lived OOT. Did you know all OOTners are country bumpkins? We have straw in our hair constantly, live in one room log cabins and use outhouses.

amother

Mon, Sep 15 2014, 11:48 am

Dina_B613 wrote:

You can get most of the basics at places like Von's/Safeway/Kroger and Costco. Yes, kosher chicken, meat, cheese, wine.
Amother as names of stores kind of give away my location I believe...

LittleDucky

Mon, Sep 15 2014, 11:50 am

amother wrote:

amother who lives in a tiny community but can send to a school in a larger one that has good academics.. .do you mind posting where you live?
you amother after all Smile

And what are your reasons for moving? Will you have a job? Why would your husband like it better?

ectomorph

Mon, Sep 15 2014, 12:06 pm

amother wrote:

I moved pretty OOT when I got married.

Things I love:
Being asked to help out int he community - people are so kind to each other and we are always feeling welcome socially and involved.
People are interested in making connections.
People are helpful and share useful information.
Less gashmius competition... less pressure to live up to a certain standard.

Things I don't love:
Dealing with levels of frumkeit, like let's say I don't feel comfortable eating at someone's house... everyone finds out and it becomes all political.
Everything you say will get repeated to everyone. So be careful to only say positive things about the community, the institutions, other families, etc.
No frum conveniences!!! This is a biggie for me. We run out of meat.... no meat! We run out of chicken... I can't just run out and buy chicken if the 1 store that sells it is closed. Even vegetables have to be planned in advance if I don't have the car.
My mother commented when she came that I don't serve a lot of sides like she does. But if I don't have energy... I won't make potato kugel. If I forget to buy pickles, there are no pickles. I can't just run out the the kollel store and get everything catered.

Grandma 1

Mon, Sep 15 2014, 12:36 pm

Pro - More down to earth people, and less keeping up with the Jones's
Con - Less access to Kosher amenities, and tznius appropriare clothing.
OP, If I'm reading into your post correctly, you need to be making a move out of town - not something you're happy about - and are looking for ways to cope with situation. As far as picking yourself out of your comfort zone: You have to work on your mindset. Tell yourself that you can either spend your time feeling sorry for yourself, and wallow in your misery, or you can find ways to turn this move into a positive experience for you and your family.