lawsuit | Imamother

amother

Blonde

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 5:36 pm

OP here.

So the lawsuit is moving forward. I got a lawyer. As per my rabbi's suggestion, I sent a letter to her sometime ago, stating that if she wanted to sue us, she should have taken us to beis din. She responded by saying that she is still my friend and that she did not want to take me to beis din, and that she is not suing me personally, but my insurance company. She claimed her rabbi allowed her to sue our insurance company. According to my lawyer, you never sue insurance company but the person. Is it ok for a rabbi to give out such misinformation?! My rabbi said that he will help us when we do take her to the beis din (which I am planning to do as soon as we are done with the civil lawsuit, regardless of the outcome). I received her claims today and it lists other lawsuits. This petty woman sues left and right! I am just disgusted! She is basically suing anything and anybody! And she claims to be so frum and that she was moving away from our area because our schools are not frum enough for her! it's such hillul Hashem. And I am so upset with her rabbi who also happens to live in our community. My husband is so mad, that he wants to take him to beis din for giving misinformation Sad

I understand that everything has been decreed by Hashem and that there is a lesson to be learned. But right now I want to tell everybody about what she is doing (not saying that I will do it). I just need to went. Anonymously Sad

amother

Mauve

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:27 pm

OP, I know you're hurt but others have told you what I'm about to. She can't sue your insurance company. She had to sue you for any possible insurance (even your lankord's) to pay. Going through a bet din won't meet the legal needs of her insurance company, who may be forcing her to sue you as a way to recoup their expenses for her. That's how insurance works. Of course, we don't know from what you've said what you're bring sued for or whether your landlords, your car insurance company, etc may be liable. As for what she's suing for--I sued a business some years ago after I broke my ankle in multiple places because the business hadn't repaired a huge hole and more in the sidewalk. I was shocked when I saw all that the lawyer out in the suit ("loss of consortium" included), but my lawyer and theirs told me that's standard in lawsuits. My health insurance insisted that I sue because they refused to pay any of my expenses for orthopedic appointments and physical therapy. We're talking thousands of dollars. This may be just an attempt to get money--but it really may not be.

amother

Blush

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 6:45 pm

"Subrogation" is the right of an insurer to pursue a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured. This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid to the insured for the loss.

Plain English. If her insurance company paid for her loss, it has the right to sue -- in her name -- anyone it believes caused the loss -- that's you. In fact, assuming you're insured, your insurance should pick up the defense, and settle or try the case with you being responsible only for the deductible (and, if there's any liability above your coverage limit, for that).

Unless she was willing to pay out of her own pocket for whatever happened, she has and had no control over this.

And no, the insurance company is not going to the beit din. And if she refused to allow the insurance company to bring this claim, they would have denied coverage to her.

Go on. Read your policy. You authorized your insurer to do the same thing. Even if it means that seven prominent rabbis are sued in your name.

Now call the number on your insurance policy, and demand that they defend you.

amother

Blonde

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:21 pm

OP here,

I did not have a renters insurance at the time. Based on the paperwork and according to my lawyer, she is suing herself and nobody is making her. she has been trying to sue a few people for little here and there. I saw a lawsuit for some medical malpractice and then for a little accident.

It's one thing to sue if there is major negligence. It's another to sue another frum person who you claim be "friends" with. with friends like that, who needs enemies.

My rabbi believes that what she is doing is problematic and that I have the right to take her to beis din.

I feel that a person like this is dangerous. What will prevent her from suing somebody again?

Notsobusy

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:25 pm

Op, I hear you. I think if I was in a position where I was being forced to sue a friend, I would right away discuss it with that friend, apologize and explain why I was doing it. I wouldn't ignore the situation and keep sending my kids to play as if nothing is going on. And here it sounds like she's suing on her own and she's still sending her kids to play by you. Some people are just shameless.

FancyPansy

Tue, Apr 28 2015, 8:41 pm

Just a couple things I learned:

I had a problem with a woman who was trying to buy my house, to make a long story short, the lawyer advised me not to speak to her, or any of the Realtors, or anybody about the issue. Anything we said to anybody no matter how innocent, might come back against us.

The other thing (I learned it from an ER worker) is that if a person goes to get medical treatment and says the injury was a result of an accident the health insurance pays, then the insurance tries to get paid from the other party.

It's possible the person's insurance is trying to recover expenses, or it could be that the person spoke to someone who advised her to sue. In either case, the best to do is talk to a lawyer, and no one else. Hope it works out.

smilingmom

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 6:32 am

My DH, kids and I have all broken our legs at various Jewish owned locations, sidewalk in front of shul, school, kosher hotel.
It never once crossed our minds to sue, even though there was always some fault of the owners.
Our insurance always covered medical expenses, and the extra expenses were added to our living expenses. Our insurance company never tried to recoup the money, they just asked us if we were going to sue.
We would not sue another Jew for money.
It's a personal decision, and not an halachic requirement, but it works for us.

As to multiple suits by some people. Some individuals see suing others as a quick way of making money, whether it's for a down payment on a house or money for a new car. They sue anyone possible, just to make a few bucks in a few years. Legally, they are not doing anything wrong and since the attorney gets one third, they are willing to take on theses cases.

33055

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 6:44 am

smilingmom wrote:

That is amazing. You had a minimum of 4 broken legs in your family because of negligence at Jewish owned businesses? You should have gone to BD just for the sake of future victims.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 7:01 am

Smilingmom, I wasn't thrilled about suing either but: I lay on the ground outside the store, holding a small child. I knew something was broken. The store refused to send anyone out (we're not talking mall) to help me. They refused to help with medical expenses (or even come to the phone the first times I called), and my health insurance said they weren't responsible since it was an accident caused by someone else. We were doing major house repairs and I was in crutches. My kids were going to camp for the first time. We were also going to Israel for the first time as a family . Oh --and I worked outside the home. There was no way I could pay the thousands in medical bills (that the store's insurance covered ), and I have permanent breve damage to my foot. My house had stairs. I couldn't drive and had to hire someone to drive us to shop for camp, groceries, etc. I had to have someone drive me to work s d pick my kids up after school.I couldn't carry my little one. Yes, friends helped, but we're talking needing multiple hours a week of help. My husband's job required him to leave early, work late ,and work some weekends. I'm glad you could manage without needing help or the 15,000 $ or so in medical bills. I couldn't. What I ultimately got from my lawsuit was my medical and other expenses paid plus additional money that their insurance company said and my insurance compsby relative said is standard. I would have settled for the store's insurance covering my medical bills--which they could have if the store owner had cooperated.
Not a frum store so no bet fun could help.
OP, sorry to hijack your thread and I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

amother

Blonde

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:05 am

OP here,

Thank you everybody for wonderful posts. Let me just clarify a few things.

a) I came over and helped her with a lot of things. I felt it was the least I can do. I cooked and brought groceries to her. and when I knew they were low on money, I bought food. Not making myself a martyr, just stating facts. also she does not work outside of the house.
b) we offered to cover her medical bills. She said not to worry because everything was covered by her insurance. I asked her more than once and did that for an extended period of time.
c) I have multiple witnesses that will testify on my behalf stating that her claims to permanent damage etc. are false because they have seen her do everything without any problems.

This woman sues because she needs the money. And I get that. We all are always short on money. We all have children and school tuitions, bills etc. There is a right way and there is a wrong way. Period. She chooses to sue. She is the type of person. And at this point I feel that I need to warn others. What happens if she walks past your house and she trips, and now she decides to sue you??? And what if you just simply do not have this very moment money to fix your sidewalk because you happen to be in a very bad financial situation? And you do not have family members to help? So this gives her the right to sue you??? what has happened to human decency? what about us Jews, who are supposed to be better than the nations of the world? what happen to doing kiddush Hashem instead of hillul Hashem?

I understand people who have sued because of major negligence. Like I said, there is the right way and there is the wrong way.

smilingmom

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:23 am

I am not sure what my suing and getting money will help others.

I was very upset at the school and the hotel in how they handled the matter, but I spoke to them both, which unfortunately did not help, since they did not change their policy, and did nothing to placate my concerns.
Perhaps suing them may have helped in getting them to change their policy, but since the both had insurance, they would probably prefer a civil suit rather than a beth din which would just result in money being exchanged and no policy change.

I am not sure why anyone's medical insurance wouldn't cover expenses?
What if the accident occurred on your sister's property, would you have to sue her?
Legally the only time your insurance can refuse to cover expenses is if it work related or a car accident or if you sue.

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:29 am

I am sorry you are going through this.. Firstly, I agree with the posters who said not to speak with her. At this point, Anything you say could be used against you. However, if she is bringing you to court in her individual capacity (and not through her insurance) you do have the right to go to beis din. Any beis din would send her a hazmanah on the basis that she brought you to court. However, I hate saying this, but you need to pick your Beis din carefully. Many batei din are so corrupt and out to make money. Hatzlacha!

amother

Ivory

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 11:38 am

If her insurance covered her bills she can only ask for any thing she paid out of pocket so co-pays and if she is a sahm she can't sue you for lost wages and so at that point what can she sue u for. Also best next time (hope to never have it) add ND they refuse your money write it and get it signed and notarized everything on paper is better so best to have conversations like this via text email rather then a phone call just to have documentation outher wise it's all he said she said

PAMOM

Wed, Apr 29 2015, 5:28 pm

OP, it definitely sounds like you did everything you morally and legally should have done. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
Smilingmom, you are partly mistaken. Under the circumstances described above (broken foot), health insurance typically will get you seen and treated, BUT you will be asked for the cause of the injury. Specifically , the intake form at ER or doctors office will ask if the injury is the result of an accident. You will need to specify details. If the health insurance company believes the injury was caused by third party negligence, they will go after the third party for payment (see explanation of "subrogation" above). Feel free to ask attorneys, imamothers in the insurance field, or those in health care, although I believe some of us have addressed your claims above.
OP and others, in some municipalities, a homeowner (not renter) is responsible for maintaining sidewalks. While there are potential legal problems with this solution also, you may want to consider blocking off the damaged area so that there's a clear warning of danger. It's tough--and, again, OP, this is a horrible situation for you .

amother

Wheat

Thu, Apr 30 2015, 9:26 am

Whenever someone was hurt and needed medical care, my health insurance company asked for information where the injury happened o they can sue if necessary.

A child of mine got seriously hurt by my siblings house. B'H I was able to pull it off that the insurance company did not come after my siblings insurance. B"H my child made a complete recovery and I am paying slowly my out of pocket expense. I did not want to cause financial harm to my sibling.

My sibling wasn't negligent it just was one of those life accidents.