Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette
Product of a 1-Night Stand
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 29 2014, 10:03 pm
So, I recently met a woman at a Shabbos meal and we were chatting about her life. She is married and has three little boys and one older boy who is going to yeshiva in E'Y next year. We were talking about first dates because one of the host's daughters was going on her first shidduch date and was asking about good places to go, so I asked her where she and her husband had their first date, she responded that they had gone to X restaurant. I looked confused, and said, "Oh, the one in NY? I didn't know they had been open for that long." I SWEAR it was an innocent comment. She looked at me and said, "Moishie (name changed) was the product of a one night stand I had in college." The conversation sort've fell short and I had no idea what to say, so I just said, "Oh, okay."

What's the etiquette?
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 29 2014, 10:09 pm
She could have said, "Moishe is my son from another relationship" and let you assume the relationship was a marital one. Why did she have to be so in-your-face about her zxual history? Why did she need to specify it was a one-night-stand as opposed to a long-term relationship? Did you ask? No.

Not much you could say except maybe , "Ah, that explains it then" or "Oh."

She's the one who breached the rules of etiquette, not you.
Back to top

m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 29 2014, 10:24 pm
DrMom wrote:
She could have said, "Moishe is my son from another relationship" and let you assume the relationship was a marital one. Why did she have to be so in-your-face about her zxual history? Why did she need to specify it was a one-night-stand as opposed to a long-term relationship? Did you ask? No.

Not much you could say except maybe , "Ah, that explains it then" or "Oh."

She's the one who breached the rules of etiquette, not you.


ITA
There are a million ways she could have answered you in a more socially appropriate and less awkward way. Even something like "Moishe was born before my marriage to DH" would have been less strange.

Your answer of "oh, okay" sounds perfectly appropriate, given the circumstances.
Back to top

ValleyMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 29 2014, 11:02 pm
That's not very classy.
NOBODY needs to know That much information at a shabbos table.

Can you imagine me describing my pap smear in graphic details at someone's shabbos table?!

Who needs to hear THAT!??!
Back to top

freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 12:34 am
What is happening to this world?
Back to top

ewa-jo




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:32 am
freidasima wrote:
What is happening to this world?


I blame Oprah.

I think people generally knew the difference between personal matters and private matters, but after decades of watching famous people spill their (metaphoric) guts out on a talkshow host's sofa, normal people seem to think that it's healthy to unburden yourself, show your true self, be honest...etc
Back to top

imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:44 am
I think the trend is older than Oprah. I think it dates back to the "Let it all hang out" philosophy of the 60's.

I believe the general rule if someone else does something outside the bounds of politeness (unless it is personally threatening, in which case, you call for help), you should ignore the faux pas.

If someone passes gas, literally or figuratively, you take a discreet step back and pretend not to notice.

I think your response was just right; a quick, noncommittal response that words were spoken, and a quick change of subject.

There is nothing wrong with asking someone where she and her DH met.
Back to top

sara_s




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 3:48 am
Since it sounds like she was trying to shock you, maybe she wasn't even serious? Sometime I make a joke and people don't realize I'm kidding..
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 4:14 am
I would have tried to smooth out the resulting awkwardness at the table by complementing the step father. I would have said that I didn't imagine so and so wasn't his biological father because they have such a nice relationship. I would then apologize to your guest for putting her on the spot. It is not to late to call her. She would probably apologize right back to you.

She was wrong to blurt out her answer. You were wrong to ask personal questions and then call her to task on her answer. Sometimes people ask personal questions under the guise of trying to get to know someone or get info. I imagine she was tired of these questions because people don't stop. If she told you her son had a different father, that is normally not the end. To avoid the problem in the future, don't ask personal questions.

People in the frum world ask intrusive questions and then try to do the math. OP you may have felt you were innocently asking for your daughter's sake but you put your guest in an awkward position probably in front of her kids. Why would you do then do the math? You caused the problem. I hate being deposed at the Shabbos table. What passes for innocent conversation sometimes amazes me.

Last Shabbos I was asked at the table by one of my guests was my new ring real? Another guest asked how much did it cost and how big is it? It is none of their business. I am often asked for my personal history. People feel free to do the math and then start prying. I have been asked numerous times how old my kids were when their father died. How old were they when you got remarried? Was your husband married before? Does your husband have children from his prior marriage? Do they see their grandparents?

You guest handled it badly, but she was probably sick of the questions. DKLZ her. She built herself a new life.

Anonymous because of the personal details.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 4:24 am
imasinger wrote:



There is nothing wrong with asking someone where she and her DH met.


Same amother:

The wrongness is doing the math out loud.
Back to top

groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 4:50 am
amother wrote:
She was wrong to blurt out her answer. You were wrong to ask personal questions and then call her to task on her answer. Sometimes people ask personal questions under the guise of trying to get to know someone or get info. I imagine she was tired of these questions because people don't stop. If she told you her son had a different father, that is normally not the end. To avoid the problem in the future, don't ask personal questions.

People in the frum world ask intrusive questions and then try to do the math. OP you may have felt you were innocently asking for your daughter's sake but you put your guest in an awkward position probably in front of her kids. Why would you do then do the math? You caused the problem. I hate being deposed at the Shabbos table. What passes for innocent conversation sometimes amazes me.

Last Shabbos I was asked at the table by one of my guests was my new ring real? Another guest asked how much did it cost and how big is it? It is none of their business. I am often asked for my personal history. People feel free to do the math and then start prying. I have been asked numerous times how old my kids were when their father died. How old were they when you got remarried? Was your husband married before? Does your husband have children from his prior marriage? Do they see their grandparents?

You guest handled it badly, but she was probably sick of the questions. DKLZ her. She built herself a new life.

Anonymous because of the personal details.


First of all, OP was not the host. They were both guests at another person's Shabbos table. So she wasn't 'deposing' her guest.

Second, I think the examples you have are WAY more extreme than what the OP asked. The questions you got were intrusive and nosy. There's nothing nosy about assuming a frum couple have been married longer than the age of their eldest son. Are there people for whom this is not the case? Sure. But I do not think you need to run a background check on every person you chat with to avoid hurting their feelings with innocent comments. Use your brain, yes, but people also need to relax and realize that if they have an unusual circumstance, it will probably come up in conversation once in a while. You can stew about it, or you can realize that everyone puts their foot in their mouth at some point.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 4:58 am
I don't think the question was so personal.

"What did you talk about on your first date?" = personal question.

"Where did you go on your first date?" doesn't seem so personal.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:17 am
groovy1224 wrote:
First of all, OP was not the host. They were both guests at another person's Shabbos table. So she wasn't 'deposing' her guest.

Second, I think the examples you have are WAY more extreme than what the OP asked. The questions you got were intrusive and nosy. There's nothing nosy about assuming a frum couple have been married longer than the age of their eldest son. Are there people for whom this is not the case? Sure. But I do not think you need to run a background check on every person you chat with to avoid hurting their feelings with innocent comments. Use your brain, yes, but people also need to relax and realize that if they have an unusual circumstance, it will probably come up in conversation once in a while. You can stew about it, or you can realize that everyone puts their foot in their mouth at some point.


It doesn't matter who asked the questions. No problem with the assumptions. It is the math that I object to and the follow up questions. Let people tell their own stories in their own time.

Even when someone has a traditional story, why must we know it? We are getting several new neighbors and I have been told their history including what street their parents and grandparents live on before they gave the binder. Why must all these details come out? We can't have good neighbors who are BTs or divorcees or had a one night stand?

The questions about the oldest boy would follow inevitably. In my experience they don't stop. I pretend I give vague answers about dates and I get asked again and again. I will say something like my husband died when they were young. How old were they? They were young? Were they in pre 1A? They were young. And so on.
Back to top

mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:26 am
Op, you did nothing wrong. Your question was not personal. Your response was perfect. OK and then move on. Her response was the only inappropriate part.
Back to top

abound




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 5:28 am
Her appropriate response to protect her son's dignity should be, He is from a different father.
Back to top

Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 7:46 am
The guest most definitely answered inappropriately, but I believe that she may have felt attacked. By having the OP question her as to weather or not the restaurant was open so long awakened a sense of anxiety/victimization in her which exists because she knows about her Moishe's conception. OP was probably asking if the restaurant is open so long out of surprise, but in doing so she was also questioning the truth of the guest's statement.
Back to top

Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 8:02 am
There is sometimes a gap between what one person says and what another hears.

You were musing, "I didn't think that was around that long."

She heard you saying, "HAH! That place wasn't around when your older son was conceived, you tramp." And she answered what she heard you say.

As someone else said, too many people "do the math," and feel that they are entitled to comment on it.
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 8:08 am
You know, in light of all the "math" comments, I wonder if it might be a good idea for OP to drop her a note and say, I'm sorry if I put you in an uncomfortable position, you know that it was the last thing on my mind, and I have a lot of respect for the beautiful family you built. Something like that, then just let it go.

ETA: I wasn't thinking along those lines at all, more like, TMI and let's change the subject. But since so many other people see it from that angle, my suggestion might be a nice gesture. Or maybe not.
Back to top

naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 8:11 am
To answer FS , I think tznius is shoved down our throats so much
Just look at this forum, which is very chilled in comparison to my day to day life , how much is " inappropriate ". that many are having a knee jerk James Dean reaction
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 30 2014, 8:18 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
To answer FS , I think tznius is shoved down our throats so much
Just look at this forum, which is very chilled in comparison to my day to day life , how much is " inappropriate ". that many are having a knee jerk James Dean reaction


Can you explain what you mean in the context of this thread?
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Question for product from bingo
by amother
3 Yesterday at 3:51 pm View last post
Toddler night wean
by amother
7 Yesterday at 10:16 am View last post
Favorite “frum” product/invention 107 Mon, Mar 18 2024, 8:56 am View last post
9m old screaming the whole night. Arching back
by amother
11 Sat, Mar 16 2024, 10:40 pm View last post
I can't stand the anxiety
by amother
8 Mon, Mar 04 2024, 8:15 pm View last post