Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Is it possible to have a shomer negiya relationship?
  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:02 pm
freidasima wrote:
Why would one even want to have a shomer negiya relationship? I come from a world in which normal touch is normal, and in that world people have morals and also know what lines should not be crossed and therefore do their utmost to not cross them. You can shake hands and hug friendship like and kiss on the cheek and that's it.

I have known many girls and boys of both college age and younger who lived in this world, had boyfriends and girlfriends and never did anything with them that they wouldn't have done with their brother of the same age. no making out, no mouth kissing, no touching anywhere untoward and never taking off any article of clothing. They all got married virgins and not "technical virgins" had never seen the opposite gender without clothing before their marriage and lived a happy and good Jewish life for the past X number of years since getting married.

Hence if "shomer negiya" means never touching even to shake hands, that doesn't really go with the term "relationship" in today's polairzed society. It's much easier to keep to boundaries when one lives within a community where such boundaries are normal.

It exists even today. My single children are all virgins, boys and girls, and they live in a mixed gender society and the only naked members of the other gender they have ever seen are their neices or nephews under age zilch when they gave them baths as babies or toddlers under a certain age. (Or their own brothers and sisters as infants but other than oldest dd remembering bathing youngest ds as a baby as there are quite a few years between them, otherwise I doubt anyone remembers anyone, too close in age to remember)


WADR, FS... Perhaps that's why you still have 2 girls in their 30s who are still single
Just a thought . New Square and Monroe have their share of problems .
But the UWS has way more ..
Amother because I don't want angry PMs
Back to top

amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:07 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
I know many, many, many high school couples who got married. They may not have been thinking about marriage at 15, but that doesn't mean they weren't invested in their relationships.
sorry if I wasn't clear the point was that these were relationships that were not serious and so they were not shomer . Bec honestly whats the point of being more then friends at 15 without touching unless you have thoughts of a more serious future. There may be a lot who get married but most don't . From the ones who get married you could never really know who's happy . As sweet as it is I think that there is more to loose then gain from a high school relationship. however Most teenage relationships today are not shomer . I'm not sure if everyone here is naive or much older then me or am I just from really different circles then most of you .
Back to top

anon for this




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:12 pm
amother wrote:
WADR, FS... Perhaps that's why you still have 2 girls in their 30s who are still single
Just a thought . New Square and Monroe have their share of problems .
But the UWS has way more ..
Amother because I don't want angry PMs

I don't think it's appropriate to use amother only to avoid the repercussions of criticizing or insulting people.
Back to top

saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:22 pm
amother wrote:
sorry if I wasn't clear the point was that these were relationships that were not serious and so they were not shomer . Bec honestly whats the point of being more then friends at 15 without touching unless you have thoughts of a more serious future. There may be a lot who get married but most don't . From the ones who get married you could never really know who's happy . As sweet as it is I think that there is more to loose then gain from a high school relationship. however Most teenage relationships today are not shomer . I'm not sure if everyone here is naive or much older then me or am I just from really different circles then most of you .


I'm not commenting specifically on the SN aspect (although I know plenty of couples that were not SN is HS and married today). The idea that dating at 15 has to include thoughts of marriage in order to be invested in the relationship is wrong IMO. A 15 year old doesn't have the ability to get married. As to their happiness? That's not a matter of their at age at marriage, you never know who is really happy in a marriage.

We had a senior kallah in my class - she's divorced. We had another girl get engaged right after graduation and married 3 months later (she was waiting to turn 18). She's still married 14 years later.

My family rule was no dating in HS and I didn't. But of my friends who dated, some were SN, some not.
Back to top

pesek zman




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:22 pm
amother wrote:
WADR, FS... Perhaps that's why you still have 2 girls in their 30s who are still single
Just a thought . New Square and Monroe have their share of probleyms .
But the UWS has way more ..
Amother because I don't want angry PMs


Rude and inappropriate. Who are YOU to say why anyone is single, at any age?!?! As a woman who married in her 30's, on the UWS, I take great offense. What an obnoxious and judgemental comment that really has no place in this thread.
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:26 pm
IME most hs relationships were not shomer and not fitting Orthodox standards but definitely not the sleeping around or quick s-x (or at all) described on Imamother. yet again Bubbe Ruchel turned 30 and went to posh public school Very Happy
Back to top

imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:35 pm
The imamother version of Godwin's law: "As a discussion about shidduchim grows longer, the probability of mentioning Orthodox subgroups or neighborhoods that are code-words for same approaches 1" 
Back to top

amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:39 pm
amother wrote:
WADR, FS... Perhaps that's why you still have 2 girls in their 30s who are still single
Just a thought . New Square and Monroe have their share of problems .
But the UWS has way more ..
Amother because I don't want angry PMs


No you are anon because you wanted to be rude to fs and her family. As someone who met and married her dh on the uws just wanted to let you know that we are hardly anomalies, and most of our chevra from there is married or getting married in their mid-late 20s, by choice.

I do disagree with fs and assume her non sn kids do kiss when in a serious long term relationship, but take my word that it is definitely possible to be not sn and not actually have intercourse. And then go on to have a wonderful intimate life in marriage. (Maybe better since you really know each other and that you are compatible in all areas).
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:39 pm
In my secular private high school, some people were having zex, but most weren't. There wasn't any pressure either way.
Back to top

Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:40 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
I know many, many, many high school couples who got married. They may not have been thinking about marriage at 15, but that doesn't mean they weren't invested in their relationships.


I'll be the odd one out.

I don't want my child thinking of marriage at 15. Or 18. Or even 21. I want him to be a mature adult, supporting himself and having some clue where he wants to go in life before he marries.

I do want him dating well before he's ready to marry. Because I want him to interact with a variety of women, to find out what he likes and what he doesn't like, beyond the superficial of appearance.
Back to top

Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:42 pm
amother wrote:
WADR, FS... Perhaps that's why you still have 2 girls in their 30s who are still single
Just a thought . New Square and Monroe have their share of problems .
But the UWS has way more ..
Amother because I don't want angry PMs


They're single because they're good Orthodox young adults who won't sleep around?
Back to top

amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 12:47 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
I'm not commenting specifically on the SN aspect (although I know plenty of couples that were not SN is HS and married today). The idea that dating at 15 has to include thoughts of marriage in order to be invested in the relationship is wrong IMO. A 15 year old doesn't have the ability to get married. As to their happiness? That's not a matter of their at age at marriage, you never know who is really happy in a marriage.

We had a senior kallah in my class - she's divorced. We had another girl get engaged right after graduation and married 3 months later (she was waiting to turn 18). She's still married 14 years later.

My family rule was no dating in HS and I didn't. But of my friends who dated, some were SN, some not.
not sure I understand you . But If your saying that at 15 just bec they weren't thinking of marriage doesn't mean they didn't haVe A relationship then I don't disagree . Even when dating just for fun you can have an invested relationship . I know a lot of ppl who had invested relationships and as they got older it caused them alot of pain bec it was not nessecarily marriage material . The break up was hard , they compared every guy to that ex , they think of there ex even when there married , it they married that guy that was never for them bec that becomes all you know And letting go is too scary . But I did know at 15 that I wanted to marry my husband and he knew too I didn't marry him till 19 but I did no . It's the kind of thing were every relationship is different and some do live happily ever after but most don't . Over all I think dating its something to stay away from until ready for marriage. But that's not what ops question was It was about being shomer at that age and I say most ppl aren't ! If u want to be shomer then at 15 there no reason to date
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:06 pm
At least nasty amother is an equal opportunity offender. One day she bashes chareidim, the next day she bashes MO. Should we at least give her credit for hating all Jews equally?
Back to top

amother


 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:11 pm
In the public school I went to at there were fewer teenage pregnancies than in the frum high school I left, in fact no teenage pregnancies at all. Very few relationships, certainly v v few zexual ones. We were all hyper focused on college and passing exams.

Just saying. The pregnant girls weren't the MO ones, they were the ones from BY type homes who slept with the guys at the pizza shop, ot the chassidish ones who sneaked out to go clubbing every night, expert at changing into jeans in an alleyway.
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:16 pm
I did not know or know of a single pregnant frum teen when I was in hs. And I grew up in Brooklyn, not under a rock. I'm not saying they don't happen, I'm saying they're really really rare. Certainly statistically nowhere close to the teen pg rate in general society.
Back to top

vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 1:45 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I did not know or know of a single pregnant frum teen when I was in hs. And I grew up in Brooklyn, not under a rock. I'm not saying they don't happen, I'm saying they're really really rare. Certainly statistically nowhere close to the teen pg rate in general society.


no offense, mabellevie, but just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. frum people, like everyone else, have abortions/send children away to give babies up for adoption. it happens.
Back to top

gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:11 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I did not know or know of a single pregnant frum teen when I was in hs. And I grew up in Brooklyn, not under a rock. I'm not saying they don't happen, I'm saying they're really really rare. Certainly statistically nowhere close to the teen pg rate in general society.


I didn't know of girls who got pregnant. I only knew of girls who were suddenly shipped off to Manchester or Israel sem for a year in the middle of high school...it was rare though.

Awhile ago a girl got pregnant in an extremely sheltered neighborhood and her classmates (my relatives) knowing nothing of the birds and the bees in high school, wanted to know if it was possible to catch some kind of virus that resulted in pregnancy....
Back to top

saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:16 pm
amother wrote:
not sure I understand you . But If your saying that at 15 just bec they weren't thinking of marriage doesn't mean they didn't haVe A relationship then I don't disagree . Even when dating just for fun you can have an invested relationship . I know a lot of ppl who had invested relationships and as they got older it caused them alot of pain bec it was not nessecarily marriage material . The break up was hard , they compared every guy to that ex , they think of there ex even when there married , it they married that guy that was never for them bec that becomes all you know And letting go is too scary . But I did know at 15 that I wanted to marry my husband and he knew too I didn't marry him till 19 but I did no . It's the kind of thing were every relationship is different and some do live happily ever after but most don't . Over all I think dating its something to stay away from until ready for marriage. But that's not what ops question was It was about being shomer at that age and I say most ppl aren't ! If u want to be shomer then at 15 there no reason to date


The person you date at 15 may or may not be right for you at 20. But that's true of someone you date at 20 may not be right for you a few years later. Its not specifically an age thing, though the younger you are, the more you are likely to want different paths in life.

If you only date one person (that's me!), then you have nothing to compare to. But if you date more than that, even as an adult, there is always something to compare to. I have a few single friends who are always comparing various dates, and some of them happened many years ago!

Each person you date (or interact with in general) changes the shape of your life. That's not a bad thing - it just means you change as life moves forward.

Being SN has very little to do with the seriousness of a relationship.
Back to top

saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:17 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I did not know or know of a single pregnant frum teen when I was in hs. And I grew up in Brooklyn, not under a rock. I'm not saying they don't happen, I'm saying they're really really rare. Certainly statistically nowhere close to the teen pg rate in general society.


I don't know anyone who got pregnant as a teen either.
Back to top

MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 31 2014, 2:34 pm
vintagebknyc wrote:
no offense, mabellevie, but just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. frum people, like everyone else, have abortions/send children away to give babies up for adoption. it happens.


I indicated such in my post. I was responding to a poster who wrote that her experience was the opposite, with more teen pregnancies occurring in the rw frum world than in secular society.
Back to top
Page 3 of 7   Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Painful diaper rash - did I damage our relationship?
by amother
24 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 1:22 pm View last post
Trade Wind by M. M. Kaye? (Possible Trigger Warning)
by amother
8 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 3:55 pm View last post
Is it possible to have double ear infection without pain?
by amother
15 Wed, Feb 07 2024, 5:09 pm View last post
Zvhil Rebbe -Sacher park-Is this possible 4 Mon, Feb 05 2024, 9:26 pm View last post
Small gift for serious relationship
by amother
4 Wed, Jan 31 2024, 1:08 am View last post