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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Doctor and Rabbi Disagree (fasting)
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 10:52 am
I am hyperglycemic and I get ocular migraines. My neurologist told me not to fast ever. The ocular migraines are progressive and I lose more vision the more I have. The Rabbi said to fast. The Dr was incredulous that I would listen to the Rabbi when I asked him for a way to minimize the damage.
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Shoelover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 10:54 am
amother wrote:
I am hyperglycemic and I get ocular migraines. My neurologist told me not to fast ever. The ocular migraines are progressive and I lose more vision the more I have. The Rabbi said to fast. The Dr was incredulous that I would listen to the Rabbi when I asked him for a way to minimize the damage.
even Tisha bav?
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 10:59 am
amother wrote:
I have a question to those women who will only drink or only eat minimum today, 9av. Why do you do this? AFAIK, my father is a posek and told me so too, as well as having learnt it in 2 diff schools and in seminary, on 9av the moment you eat or drink something you no longer fast at all and can eat normally. (Im not speaking of mistakenly doing so, thats a sheila to be asked, but conciously doing so)
Yom kippur we have shiurim because that still counts as fasting because on y"k we have the torah obligation of. "Ve"onisem et nafshotechem" so for example a person should rather sleep all day and not daven at all if that will make his fasting possile. but 9av is about remembering the churban and thus our sadness is more important then the fasting itself.
So my question to all of you not fasting depriving yourself of normal meals today why are you doing this? The torah doesnt allow us to hurt ourselves on purpose. If you dont fast then eat! Not junkfood or the best yummiest meals, but basic stuff
Unless I am missing something and there is a different halachic opinion? Or are some of you just taking halacha into your hands.
Sorry if I sound cynical, I am not. I just so often see women putting restrictions on themselves becasuse they dont understand thtt poskim, rabbonim, dayonim are here for all of us for percisely this!
So please, explain me if this is a psak you got from a reputable rav or your own decision.
Im only saying all this because I care. If you got the psak not to fast then you have an obligation to look after yourself.
Again pls dont bash me if I sounded to hard, I dont mean it that way, just explain to me if I am mistaken


It's also about doing the minimum. I'm still hungry if all I have is water, so I still feel like I'm fasting, even if I'm no longer doing so according to halacha. But I have found in the past, that a cup or so of water will make me feel okay, and I can finish the fast. So if I can drink only a little water, then that's all I'm going to do. I'm going to stop (and go back to "fasting") once I can.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:02 am
Shoelover wrote:
even Tisha bav?

I am not sure what you are asking.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:04 am
little_mage wrote:
It's also about doing the minimum. I'm still hungry if all I have is water, so I still feel like I'm fasting, even if I'm no longer doing so according to halacha. But I have found in the past, that a cup or so of water will make me feel okay, and I can finish the fast. So if I can drink only a little water, then that's all I'm going to do. I'm going to stop (and go back to "fasting") once I can.

From a logical ppoint of view I understand what you are saying. But from halachic point of view, afaik it is absolutely not neccessary! If you drink you might as well eat. Halacha isnt about taming our guilt ie drining and not eating so we feel "less bad" about fasting. If one has a heter not to fast then one has no heter not to eat!
Or, as I asked before, am I mistaekn and there are different shitos in paskening this? Even though what I am saying doesnt come from one source but several varied (litvish, yekish and chassidic)
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:16 am
amother wrote:
From a logical ppoint of view I understand what you are saying. But from halachic point of view, afaik it is absolutely not neccessary! If you drink you might as well eat. Halacha isnt about taming our guilt ie drining and not eating so we feel "less bad" about fasting. If one has a heter not to fast then one has no heter not to eat!
Or, as I asked before, am I mistaekn and there are different shitos in paskening this? Even though what I am saying doesnt come from one source but several varied (litvish, yekish and chassidic)


Yes, halchically once I drink, I'm done fasting, and I might as well eat. But as long as I'm not harming myself (I.e. I'm not feeling better after drinking) then I find it helps me stay connected, I guess. It's hard to explain. I have a really hard time with 9Av anyway, so anything I can do to help me feel the sorrow of the day is a good thing. I also only really do this today (and to a lesser extent, Yom Kippur), because I've been exempt from the minor fasts for the last couple of years (pregnant/nursing) and on those I do eat pretty much normally.
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Shoelover




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:23 am
amother wrote:
I am not sure what you are asking.
why does he treat Tisha bav same as yk
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:33 am
Shoelover wrote:
why does he treat Tisha bav same as yk


My neurologist said I can't fast ever because of the damage to my vision. The effects are cumulative. I need a heter for both days.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:34 am
amother wrote:
I have a question to those women who will only drink or only eat minimum today, 9av. Why do you do this? AFAIK, my father is a posek and told me so too, as well as having learnt it in 2 diff schools and in seminary, on 9av the moment you eat or drink something you no longer fast at all and can eat normally. (Im not speaking of mistakenly doing so, thats a sheila to be asked, but conciously doing so)
Yom kippur we have shiurim because that still counts as fasting because on y"k we have the torah obligation of. "Ve"onisem et nafshotechem" so for example a person should rather sleep all day and not daven at all if that will make his fasting possile. but 9av is about remembering the churban and thus our sadness is more important then the fasting itself.
So my question to all of you not fasting depriving yourself of normal meals today why are you doing this? The torah doesnt allow us to hurt ourselves on purpose. If you dont fast then eat! Not junkfood or the best yummiest meals, but basic stuff
Unless I am missing something and there is a different halachic opinion? Or are some of you just taking halacha into your hands.
Sorry if I sound cynical, I am not. I just so often see women putting restrictions on themselves becasuse they dont understand thtt poskim, rabbonim, dayonim are here for all of us for percisely this!
So please, explain me if this is a psak you got from a reputable rav or your own decision.
Im only saying all this because I care. If you got the psak not to fast then you have an obligation to look after yourself.
Again pls dont bash me if I sounded to hard, I dont mean it that way, just explain to me if I am mistaken


I asked my rav who is the Av Beis Din of a major community. He says to do shiurim in early pregnancy if necessary. I listen to my rav because that's what the Torah says to do. He may hold differently than what you learned or he may have a different reason why shiurim are the right thing. I trust that my rav understood my shaila and circumstance and will do what he says.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 12:16 pm
amother wrote:
I asked my rav who is the Av Beis Din of a major community. He says to do shiurim in early pregnancy if necessary. I listen to my rav because that's what the Torah says to do. He may hold differently than what you learned or he may have a different reason why shiurim are the right thing. I trust that my rav understood my shaila and circumstance and will do what he says.

Thank you for clarifying, thats what I asked - r women doing it because they decided themselves or because a rav told them to. Thats the big differnce. Im always interested to learn new things, since I always learnt shiurim only count on yom kipur, but as always we learn something new. Ashrenu that we have our rabbonim and that we do what they say even if it is different to what another rav says (some women made it sound like they doing so on their own decision because they feel bad not to fast). Feel good!
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 12:18 pm
When I had to eat a small amount to take antibiotics I was told to do less than a shiur.

When I had to stay hydrated, I was told no shiurim.

I think it depends on the circumstances.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 12:19 pm
amother wrote:
Thank you for clarifying, thats what I asked - r women doing it because they decided themselves or because a rav told them to. Thats the big differnce. Im always interested to learn new things, since I always learnt shiurim only count on yom kipur, but as always we learn something new. Ashrenu that we have our rabbonim and that we do what they say even if it is different to what another rav says (some women made it sound like they doing so on their own decision because they feel bad not to fast). Feel good!


I also thought it sounded like the woman decided to do it on their own.
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ESLevi




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 05 2014, 11:36 pm
There must be different halachic opinions regarding drinking shiurim on 9 Av. A few years ago I was told by my doctor to drink on Tisha B'av and my rav told me to drink shiurim. The shiur is larger than Yom Kippur, I think it is twice the size (2 oz instead of 1 oz if I remember correctly?) My doctor was OK with it so that's what I did.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 06 2014, 1:42 am
amother wrote:
Thank you for clarifying, thats what I asked - r women doing it because they decided themselves or because a rav told them to. Thats the big differnce. Im always interested to learn new things, since I always learnt shiurim only count on yom kipur, but as always we learn something new. Ashrenu that we have our rabbonim and that we do what they say even if it is different to what another rav says (some women made it sound like they doing so on their own decision because they feel bad not to fast). Feel good!

3 weeks postpartum. My rav said I can try to fast and if I can't it's better if I can just drink and not eat. I don't understand why it would make a difference but obviously there is an opinion that this is better than just eating whatever you feel like once you are no longer technically fasting.
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