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Ami's Article re: Country Visitors



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UQT




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 10 2014, 10:02 pm
It's being hotly debated in my neighborhood and not a word on imamother? As my neighbors and I are in our mid-thirties and don't visit our parents regularly with our broods in tow, we are siding with the father here. Guests are nice in small doses. Especially if couples are separated a whole week, the father deserves to have his wife's attention when he comes up.

I am wondering what Bubbies themselves have to say. And what about young marrieds - is it really OK to go visit parents every single week without fail?
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 10 2014, 11:30 pm
IMO, every week is too much, but once a summer seems too little to me. I would say every third week or so sounds good.

I also think it depends on the daughter's situation. Is there an Eiruv where she lives? Does she have neighbors she can visit with during the day? If she is spending every Shabbos stuck indoors alone with a crabby baby and a toddler, there should be more understanding for her wanting to come a lot, but every week is still too much.

There is no Eiruv in my neighborhood and I used to go crazy on the long Shabbosim when I had a screeching baby and a hyperactive toddler. I know the misery. I did it and survived, but I can understand why a mother would want to go away under those circumstances. I would be mad if I was told I could only come to my parents' summer home for one measly Shabbos each summer.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:10 am
the world's best mom wrote:
IMO, every week is too much, but once a summer seems too little to me. I would say every third week or so sounds good...
*snip*
... I would be mad if I was told I could only come to my parents' summer home for one measly Shabbos each summer.

But wouldn't that also depend on how many children the parents have? If the parents have 8 married children, then I could see once per family per summer being enough for them!

Personally, I wouldn't survive the car trip every week. I always need a while to recover after visiting the country, even though I love it dearly.

Anyway, I did not read the article you're all talking about so I will bow out before I start to sound totally irrelevant.
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 9:02 am
I didn't read it either, but I was told about it. I think the family in the article had one married child and they bought the 5 bedroom summer home because they wanted to be able to have the whole family together often.
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rise above




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 9:07 am
I think am important point none of the people weighing in after the article missed was-
this is their first and only married daughter at this point. Even if they gave in and had her every week with her kids, they are setting a very dangerous precedent of entitlement. The younger siblings are now babysitting their nieces and nephews every shabbos- when it gets to their turn to get married of course they will expect to also get to come to the 5 star hotel every shabbos! But at that point, with 4 or 5 married and 15+ grandchildren, the Bubby will for sure have come to her senses and say this is impossible to maintain shabbos after shabbos. That is going to cause an enormous amount of resentment later down the line..
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amother


 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 9:34 am
Can someone post the article?
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imokay




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 9:49 am
I was thinking that it wasn't the weekly visits that were the real issue but the level of catering that had become expected (ie: taking care of the crying kids, feeding meals, etc)
If the daughter wud make a bigger effort to watch her own kids and remove them from bungalow during the afternoon when adults nap, then perhaps there wud b less friction and conflict of interests.
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Tzutzie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 10:03 am
I read the article. I left it at my mil so I cant go back and reference it. But I totally agree!
They weren't talking about only once a summer. I think they wrote 2 or 3 times. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Another point they brought out, the parents also shvitzt in the city as a young couple with babies and they are fine. I do it too! And im fine! Imagine how odd! I even look forward to shabbos in the city!

And poor father. He deserves it. I can totally c myself in this situation. Dh works HARD 6 days a week. It isn't fair to the father. And the mother too.
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 10:25 am
Tzutzie wrote:
I read the article. I left it at my mil so I cant go back and reference it. But I totally agree!
They weren't talking about only once a summer. I think they wrote 2 or 3 times. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Another point they brought out, the parents also shvitzt in the city as a young couple with babies and they are fine. I do it too! And im fine! Imagine how odd! I even look forward to shabbos in the city!

And poor father. He deserves it. I can totally c myself in this situation. Dh works HARD 6 days a week. It isn't fair to the father. And the mother too.

I was told it was once a summer, but since I didn't read it, you can totally be right.

If you enjoy Shabbos in the city then I'm assuming you are not stuck in the house all day with a screaming baby. You must either have an Eiruv or a happy baby or something to make it bearable. Because I may have survived my screaming baby/ difficult toddler days, but just hardly. My baby was worse than almost all other babies I have ever encountered- he never stopped screaming and no one was allowed to hold him except me. When I went to my in-laws in the country for Shabbos, they certainly didn't take care of him for me- they don't like holding screaming babies.

But I was able to go outside with him. I was able to schmooze over the sound of his screams. I wasn't pacing my tiny apartment talking to the four walls and my toddler who listened as well as the walls did. I wasn't cleaning up my toddler's thousand messes while holding a tiny wailing thing and wishing I could just go out for a breath of fresh air. The feeling of being trapped with no adult company and really difficult kids is pretty difficult to get through. Of course, my husband was around when he wasn't davening or learning or sleeping, but that didn't leave much time.

I still agree that every week is way to much and that grandparents shouldn't feel pressured to help with the kids unless they want to. But the way I was told about it, it seemed pretty heartless towards the daughter.
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cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 11:32 am
Was this one of those articles which applies the general tenets of personal decency to a new setting, the Country? If so, I feel bad to have missed it but I can probably recreate it by digging through my clipped articles on Sukkos, Pesach, Shabbos Chanukah, Rosh Hashanah, Shavuos, Shabbos Nachamu, Lag Ba'Omer, having babies, making simchas, etc.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 11:46 am
I thought this article only gave one side - a very common scenario is older parents whose children are all married, or their single children are older and/or out of the house.
In either case you need a sense of balance. For the married couple to come every single Shabbos and expect to be wined and dined is not fair. However there's nothing wrong if they come 2 or 3 shabbosim out of the summer, and they take care of their own kids.
Maybe I'm biased - I go to my parents 2 or 3 weekends during the summer. I never leave the kids with my mother unless she genuinely offers, and I appreciate any help that is given, but I don't expect anything. Yes, just my children's presence adds noise and mess but I try my best to clean up after them, and I keep them quiet on Shabbos afternoon so my parents can rest. I never ask anyone to watch them. I hope my parents aren't resentful, and I don't think they are, because I try not to impose on them. I am also very grateful because this is my vacation for the summer, I can't afford to go away.
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MMCH




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 12:06 pm
we were also talking about this article the whole shabbos!
I am in my early twenties with two little kids, and I agree with the father.
(even thgh I think its slightly immature of the father to expect the mother to have to agree with him, and tell the daughter its coming from both of them, I think the father should be the one to say something.)

it seems acc. to the article, that the level of taking care of the daughters family (her taking a nap, the siblings watching the nieces/nephews) is really unfair. I also think Reb Twersky was right when she said "these are common expectations in our culture today....a feeling of entitlement..."


I work full time also, (as does my dh) have two little kids, and I would never assume my mother or my father would want to spend every shabbos with us!!!! I guess in different circles thats the norm, but im wondering to this young mother, how she thinks its fair? to come EVERY week, and be wined and dined, with free babysitting.
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 1:04 pm
I didnt read the article. This is interesting because I was always so envious of others who had parents in the country to go to for a free vacation. But lately as I've been reading, there's another side to it that's not always so great.

Another thought, I know some people who stop enjoying the country after their kids are grown, it's too quiet. So it must be that some do like the company.

But for sure there should be some basic rules so it's not ovewhelming
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:07 pm
My parents only go to "the country"* for about ten days, but they are disappointed that none of us are able to join them. (or, pretending to be LOL ) Instead, they will join us for a shabbos.

*we don't use that term.
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sunny90




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 2:57 pm
We lived near my IL's (in chul) for the first almost 3 years of our marriage. Then we came to Israel and now we live near my parents (most of my siblings are still at home).
I love going to my parents for Shabbos lunch because I don't like being home all day with my three boys in a small apartment, Eiruv or not! It's hot in the park. So going there gives me a chance to go out and be with my family whom I missed being with during those 3 years (Yes, still not over it Tongue Out).
That being said, I always offer to make a dessert or side dish or whatever my mom wants me to make so it'll be easier for her, and I generally supervise my kids unless they're playing outside with my brother, at which point I manage to take a break for a half hour or so. And we clean up after their mess and leave by 2 so everyone can have a nap.
Sometimes I feel like maybe I take it too much for granted that I can come, but my mother has no problem telling me no so I assume that if she wants a nice quiet Shabbos she will let me know. We're both adults. I may not be happy about it but I will understand.
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penguin




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 11 2014, 3:08 pm
Also missing from the story - does the young son in law have parents? Married siblings? Even cousins? Who might invite them for a Shabbos?
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