can we rise above this please?

Frumdoc

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 6:28 pm

I was going to post this on the just locked thread, but got there too late. I want to say it anyway

Increasing the animosity on here by attacking like a pack of wolves is not doing any of us any favors.

We are better than this, and I regret stirring the pot when I did. I used the terms serpent and snake in anger, and although I feel the analogy is justified, I do think it stirred up more bad feeling than was warranted, and increased the level of sinas chinum at a time when I personally am trying to work on shalom.

I do not believe it is becoming of a group of frum women to call each other or refer to others, names such as apikorus, rodef or slut or threaten/ imply that someone's actions will send them to hell. It is not in my power to stop it, and most of my efforts both privately or publicly to explain why I feel this is not appropriate have been belittled, mocked or misunderstood, sometimes deliberately.

On a forum where we limit our use of certain phrases to be hidden from search programs, such a zex, consider whether the great search engine in the sky would pick up and approve of how we treat each other, or if this could be improved?

Everyone on here is committed to halacha, and the assumptions that we are not, and that we are "not frum" is laughable and insulting. Belittling someone for ignorance, or for getting things wrong is poor chinuch and liable to drive people away from mainstream halacha rather than bring them closer. These are not the actions of loving jews who are committed to encouraging those surrounding them to elevate themselves spiritually; engaging in discourse a loving and kind manner, with understanding and patience, I would call the duty of any militant orthodox jew who despises tolerance.

I have seen so many people driven away from orthodoxy by "RW fanatics", but equally seen self described "shtark RW" jews reach out and draw others into their circles with love and truly shining neshamas.

None of us are perfect, we all struggle with different areas, inside and outside judaism, and I had considered this a safe space to explore some of these issues. There is much of value on here, not least the combined learning, knowledge and experience of hundreds of frum women bringing together their values to form a place where Judaism is thriving. Sadly, these discussions have been interpreted as "anti halacha" rather than learning together. That is not how I see them.

But, whatever happens, lets stop this rabble rousing now, and take a step back to consider who each of us individually want to be, and whether this post, these words will help or hinder us.

Make it about yourself, not some anonymous person who has her own issues to confront. Take her/ them away and bring the locus of control back inside yourselves, ourselves.

Be the better person. For you.

33055

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 7:01 pm

Frumdoc wrote:

You still attacked her . You can raise above this by taking your own advice. The gratuitous crack about her issues to confront was not in the spirit the rest of your post.

I missed the slut comment. I am trying to figure out if she called one of the other posters a slut or someone called her a slut.

Barbara

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 7:12 pm

Squishy wrote:

I thought her comments were intended to be addressed to everyone, not one poster. I think that the two of us can agree that this is not the first time that issues of this nature have arisen. We can only hope that it will be the last.

The only issue I took with it was the reference to "RW fanatics," which reduced the universal impact. And, as I said in another thread, "RW fanatics" have as much right to post their opinions as any other Orthodox Jew. They should just endeavor to do it kindly. Everyone here, of every persuasion, should do that.

In any case, IIRC, the "slut" comment was an entirely different poster from the one you are thinking of. It was a comment that an anonymous poster made to her own sister, whose lifestyle was, shall we say, somewhat unorthodox.

Frumdoc

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 8:23 pm

Both the phrases rw fanatics and slut were used by various posters other than the one who used apikorus, but all of these and more have been used liberally by several posters in the recent past. The rw fanatic was a quote proudly used by one such self defining poster, I don't think it was mdoif,but someone else. It isn't a phrase I would use, but one used in ownership, so I used it in order to address those who felt defined by it. I have never used the term myself, it doesn't define anything for me.

My post is addressed at all uses of such language, and all attacks on personal religious practice.

It was primarily provoked by two or three such posters, one of whom I was less than polite to, but not addressed to any.

I attacked my own aggression and name calling as well. I am as guilty as the next person and so felt it was appropriate for me to step up to call for an end and time for reflecting.

I am regretful that once again my words are being taken as a personal attack, which is not the spirit in which they were intended. I was instead trying to explain my reason for disliking the form of debates going on recently.

Sadly I am not a linguist, and my clumsy use of words has imperfectly conveyed the message. This happens.

Frumdoc

Wed, Aug 13 2014, 8:29 pm

To clarify, anonymous poster with her own issues does not refer to any specific poster, but a construct to differentiate between I and my issues and he/ she/ other person with their issue, and that one cannot deal with anyone's axe or issues other than one's own.
Confused

Equally, rw fanatic and shtark rw to me mean the same thing, and I was trying to illustrate that you can have the same outlook and practice yet behave in sharply different ways to so called outsiders.

Forgive me for the lack of clarity, it is v late and I am typing on my phone.

Last edited by Frumdoc on Wed, Aug 13 2014, 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total