Lakewood - anyone still school-less?

Chayalle

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 1:54 pm

amother wrote:

My son is not in a yeshiva yet either, we did not get into the school of our choice and recently we were asked to come to an interview of another school and when they called my sons kindergarten teacher she had the audacity to tell them maybe he should be evaluated, not sure but he is so small. (my son is short).
I had a conversation several times throughout the year and she never mentioned any reason for concern and told me yes he is 100% ready for Yeshiva.
I confronted her and actually yelled at her about the conversation she has with the school and she kind of denied it and said I wish you wouldve warned me that they would call and I said I did leave you several messages and you never bothered calling me back.
I have so much anger toward this brainless teacher because she caused doubts.
We were told we are 70% in but that can become zero at any time too. Were holding our breath but I can say I feel for each and every one of you.

I think they should give the Kindergarten Morahs some training about what to say and what not to say.

This is so painful to read.

BTW my DD is one of the shortest soon-to-be-8th-graders in Bais Faiga. She is also a straight A (+) student B"AH

From the mother of some very petite young ladies

Chayalle

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 2:03 pm

Emotional wrote:

I think originally the Cheder/Bais Faiga was founded to service the people learning in BMG. At that time - like 40 years ago or so - those were mostly the only people interested in sending there anyway. DH has relatives who attended when the school was in a little building right near Yeshiva, owned by the Yeshiva.

Later on as Lakewood began to grow, the Yeshiva people were given priority because the school was founded to service them. (Not saying I agree - just going into the history of it). And other schools did the same to some extent (which doesn't make as much sense, really.)

I think at this point so many of the "older" schools are just giving priority to siblings, and have little space. There is a need for new schools, and the way they are being built up is by people being forced to attend them.

I remember when my oldest DD was starting school, a certain school had just opened. That school - if you wanted to get in today, you could do so if you have loads of $$ to donate, otherwise forget it! Then, they were visiting people to get them to come. Bais Faiga was getting crowded, so people spilled over into this school, and now they are firmly established.

Some of the new schools - 10 years from now people will be banging their doors down.

imasoftov

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 2:08 pm

Emotional wrote:

What I mean is - giving priority to kollel families when working families are just as precious to G-d.
What I mean is - not calling every neighbor under the sun in search of ridiculous reasons to reject a child.
A woman down the block from me sends her sons to a certain school. They were accepted no problem. Do they know that this woman wears short skirts with a slit up to her you-know-what?
And yet another neighbor of mine didn't get her daughter into high school and the reason told to her by the principal was:
"Because we found out your husband wears cufflinks".
Gosh I hope I won't have a hard time getting my daughter into high school in a couple of years. They might find out I wear underwear.

What's the problem with cufflinks?

tweek

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 3:32 pm

Emotional wrote:

There is nothing wrong with a school having some standards for acceptance.
The question is, are their standards different than everyone else's? Is it all about the right "look"? If this is just going to become a photocopy of all the other schools, it doesn't solve anything.

Every school has to stand for something and then it can have standards to back that vision up.

I was just making a point about the tone of the original post. Basically there was no mention of any goals, ideals, curriculum standards etc. The proof that it is going to be a good school is that they are being selective and that they EVEN rejected people........

Emotional

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 4:03 pm

Chayalle wrote:

With all the bad rap about Lakewood and schools, it doesn't do anyone good to dramatize. And with all due respect, I don't believe that anyone didn't get into high school because of cuff links.

There's likely the story, and the true story, to that one.

Look, I know that there's likely more too the story.
The problem is thar enough of these "legends" circulate to strike terror in the hearts of parents who know good and well what they're up against.
It's scary.

Chayalle

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 4:18 pm

Emotional wrote:

That's exactly what I mean when I say that the drama does not service anyone. Hearing these types of stories only serve to dramatize the situation, and they don't benefit the people trying to get into schools and the schools themselves. Not even talking about the Halachos of L"H here, which is a whole nother story.

amother

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 5:21 pm

My Children are b"h in school and while yes there are some difficulties in Lakewood, I think the town as a whole get's a bad rap.

I was talking with another person from a different community about a close friend who's child was not in a school and the person replied "Well at least in Lakewood there's an address, they have a commitee and they attempt to make sure that every child is placed in school. To the point where the Rosh Yeshivos did not allow the school's to open at time's until every child was placed. My child is not in school either but in my community there is no address for children no in school".

The overwhelming source of issues in Lakewood is because of two issue's a) there are many school's that were opened by more "rW" people to provide a "RW" education and environment. Then there are people who move to Lakewood because of cheap home prices and the like who are really not "yeshivish" per se.

And in truth I find nothing wrong with this. To each thier own as long as they leave me alone! Tongue Out

However why would you move to a community who's institution's and infrastrucure were set up to provide a certain type of "chinuch" and "lifestyle" and then cry foul when you do not wish to have that type of lifestyle?

So why cry foul when the institution's basically say "we do not want to take in a child who will basically be taught for a good portion of the day your parents are doing the wrong stuff and then will go home and be told your teacher's have it all wrong"?

I would not move to Kiryas Yoel because I love Chasidim, but that chinuch does not square with my lifestyle. It's not for me. Nor would I move to Teaneck that chinuch does not either square with my lifestyle.

And mind you, in many case's it is these same family's who will end up coming on this board or go other places and complain about how horrible the school's "hashkofa"is. And they have to do xyz to go behind the schools back or change when they are going to pick up their child.

Hey. They knew that the school was not exactly a good fit. they tried to tell you! You forced them to take your child why are they and the vast majority of parnet's in the school who choose exactly this for their children to blame?

Secondly the basic problem that there is simply not enough space will not go away, I know one principal who told the Vaad trying to convince her to take in "just one more child". "I cannot ask a teacher to teach 35 children it's not right for the teacher and it's not right for the child. Period, enough is enough".

PinkFridge

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 5:35 pm

amother wrote:

I think this was touched on already: Lakewood is growing astronomically so yes, much needed new schools are regularly opening. And some of the kids who are out of the box still don't have a place to go. (I understand that there are plenty of kids who are in the box who for various reasons don't either but I want to address the other kids.) This isn't a matter of the parents not wanting to buy into the lifestyle but kids who need something that no school can afford to address with damaging their reputation, unlike OOT community schools. It's a problem and one I can't so easily blame anyone for.

amother

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 6:42 pm

I am sorry but I live in lakewood virtually every single child who's family is willing to "buy" into the lifestyle get's a spot in school.

Is it easy?

Sadly in many case's it's not. But it has nothing to do with a school's "reputation" rather it has to do with a lack of space.

In several case's that I am aware of the parent's original option's turned them down because they simlpy did not have a classrom for them, and in one case they the school was debating opening an additional class and told them explictly that if another class was opened they were accepted. They ended up not opening for several reason, one of them being they did not want to become a "mega school" (there are schools in lakewood with 8 parrellal classes!).

However they were guaranteed placement in two different new schools opening up.

However they held out becuase for obcious reasons they did not want to send to a brand new un established school.

In the end they did and seem quite happy with the school.

Can you blame the school? The askanim who worked with them? I knwo in one case at least the parent's themsleves's did not, at the end they were grateful for all the people that helped them.

Or simply acknowledge that B"H Lakewood is growing at a tremendous pace based on birthrate alone. A family with 10 plus kids is not a rare thing here b"h and as much as we try to keep up with the growth it's hard to keep up.

I know a school that sent around a letter to the parent's one year " We have 50 spot's next year and 53 sibling's what should we do?"

The vast majority of people who really have a hard time even getting in to new schools are family's which in many cases are made up of wonderful nice peopel. However they simply have a different "hashkofa" in life then the one's starting the school's and building up the infrastucture in Lakewood.

Yes they have a hard time because in many case's the school and the family are not a good fit and by the school accepting their child they are simply ensuring that in the end everyone school, parent's and child, will be hurt.

The school will be hurt, because they will have a family badmouthing thier policies on the street and going behing thier back to undermine what htey are trying to teach.

The parent's will be hurt because the school will essentially be teachig the children that the parent's concept's of right and wrong and what is proper is wrong.

And the child will be hurt because instead of getting a uunified upbringing from parent's and teacher's working together they will be getting conflicting messages each day for the next number of years.

Emotional

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 6:50 pm

But how often does that really happen? And what are the schools asking already?
Are they telling working husbands to go.back to kollel or else your child isn't accepted?
Are they telling women that makeup is assur? Please.
Look, I'm pretty easygoing. My son is a handful and I'm not in the best of health, so I do allow him to watch videos like Uncle Moishy, Thomas the Tank Engine, and Curious George. I truly don't think there is anything wrong with that. BUT I am willing to get rid of them if a school made that a condition of acceptance. I thing most people would be, no?

amother

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 7:05 pm

Lakewood has close to 10,00 familie's K"h and there are only about 6,500 who are either in Kollel or Kodesh do the math do u think that 3,500 families children cannot get into school?

Yes if a man got married and went to work at the age of 23 or 24 in a lot of cases they will have a hard time getting their child into school becuase the schools were set up for family's who make it a priority that men start the first few years of married life in Kollel.

I have a friend who's husband lost his job and his RW-RY called him up about a job opening he thought would suit him.

That is how Lakewood was set up.

That is the Hashkofa behind most people who started Mosdos in Lakewood.

Are there exceptions?

Sure I am aware of one young man who was advised by a major Chareidi Rosh Yeshivah to go out to work before he was married, that young man did so and had no problem getting into a child into school. there are such cases.

But in the majority of cases the men going to work right after they are married have a different Hashkofah then the "lakewood" hashhkofah.

Which does not mean they are not wonderful people, and there are 70 paths to Torah. And I know plenty of such families and in most cases they are really wonderful people, however I can not for the life of me understand why they insist on living in a community and complaining about the hashkofah of that community when they are the one's who came here and no one is forcing them to stay.

They shoul find a community that fit's them and and thier value's in life and B"h there are many such communities.

amother

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 7:22 pm

My child's teacher also bad mouthed me to the school and I found out about it even though of course the teacher denies it. Until today the teacher calls me everyone at for mechilla in case she did something wrong. I told the teacher mechilla is when u admit u did something wrong and as long as u r denying it don't call me. I don't think I will ever forgive this teacher. After 120 she will have to answer to Hashem.

It's a big problem the teachers think its their right and duty to tell the schools their version of the truth and to even offer information that the school didn't even ask for.

There are many teachers that say bad about the student or the family and most people never find out that it was that dumb kindergarten morah who ruined ur child's chance.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 7:40 pm

Tova wrote:

So if I were to move to Lakewood I'd have no trouble getting my kids into schools? We are a kollel family...I thought there were still space constraints?

Sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason. My friend's husband is a rav in Lakewood, he learns in yeshiva and is a known and respected rosh chabura. He has people knocking on his door all day asking shailos, etc. My friend is a tznuah by Lakewood standards and a really wonderful, easygoing person who gets along with everyone. Get the picture? They STILL had a hard time getting their first daughter into school. None of the three schools that they originally applied to accepted her. Oh and she's a typical kid with no special needs or anything.

Notsobusy

Wed, Aug 20 2014, 8:00 pm

To the people who are blaming "working" people and saying why would you move to Lakewood. First of all, as other posters wrote, there are a lot of people who learned in kollel and dress perfectly tznius and cannot get into schools. There is just not enough space. The classes are already huge and the schools understandably do not want to add classes.
Also, Lakewood is not like Monroe and Skevre. There the chasidus started the community. Lakewood had a frum community besides for Bmg. Many working parents in Lakewood today grew up here. Some of their fathers learned in BMG, some did not. A lot of other working people went to yeshivos here when they were teenagers or have other reasons why they want to live here. Why shouldn't they? Why do all the schools have to be so yeshivish? Why did they change Ahavas Torah to Bnos Yaakov and try to make the day school into a yeshivish school? Besides, there are schools for people who are not yeshivish. There's Ytt and Bnos Rivkah. When are we going to realize that being frum has nothing to do with learning in kollel or dressing according to the strictest rules?