Secular court vs Bais Din (split)

vintagebknyc

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 9:58 am

Barbara wrote:

Its an inappropriate question, because we are obligated to assume that halacha has been followed.

But its more than that. Mdoif, perhaps you have what my boss calls a "tin ear." You can't hear the barely veiled accusation in what you say, don't hear how different it is than "is there a heter ...." And perhaps that's been the problem elsewhere. But the fact that so many people from left to right to in-between have taken umbrage should tell you something.

Or maybe its that you are so fervent in your beliefs, and in your wish to share them, that you forget that you're addressing a real person, not a hypothetical.

We're never going to agree halachically. That's OK. I like a great number of people with whom I disagree religiously, politically, or otherwise. And even if I don't like them, I have to respect their right to their opinions. FTR, I've reported posts I thought were unkind to you. I hope that what I'm saying isn't unkind. Its not meant to be.

I just wish that you'd take a step back, and ask yourself, "could I have said that in a better way, that wouldn't have upset people." I am trying to do that myself, to learn from the lessons here.

In any case, welcome to imamother.

it's very hard to welcome a new member when one of her first posts tells a woman that her children are being treated like sewage, or will become sewage.

one of my failings is that I hold grudges, I try to fix this both as a human and a frum jew. but sewage? really? I can't get that out of my head.

amother

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 1:06 pm

As a mother whose daughter is registered in one of the seminaries next year all I can say is I want mentchlikeit.

I should be offered my money back, I did not sign up for this Chazaray and decency would be giving us our money back if we don't want to send our daughter there.

We were told our daughters can get college credits, we were told if you qualify for pell grants you can get it. Now that is not available for many students.

I am also upset with the CBD, this information they had was months ago. How about telling us about it before our $9,000 check was cashed. Meisels stepped down 8 weeks before the checks were due.

At this point in time researching everything there is so much politics going on now and nothing to do with the safety of the students I am just beyond disgusted.

I understand the 6 parents who went to court even though read the court documents there are a lot of lies there. Exaggeration at it finest but that is how lawsuits are..

Yes the parents got a Heter to got to court so Modif there are no halachik problems there.

PinkFridge

Thu, Aug 14 2014, 2:48 pm

mdoif wrote:

Later when someone mentioned that a lawsuit had been started, I asked a simple question what heter there Wink

had been. That question raised the hackles of some members, who apparently understood it to mean that I think s abuse is acceptable, and afterwards the discussion went downhill.

The point I'm trying to make, and which I wrote is indicative of the main problem, is that your perception of my trouble causing is based not on facts or on what I wrote, but on what others have accused me of doing.

I appreciate the question in your OP and support your right to ask it. But we have fundamental differences in our approaches and it came through very clearly as the thread evolved. I think I am a militant moderate (and will give you royalties when I start my rock band Wink

). I don't believe kanaus is a trick for most of us to try at home. But I do understand that people are different and there are times in life I do have an appreciation for kanaus. But you lost me with your kids smoking on Shabbos post. Should we start a spinoff? If you do I'll bli neder follow you there but my computer access might be spotty for a few days so apologies in advance.

amother

Wed, Sep 03 2014, 9:51 am

amother wrote:

Does anyone on here remember Tammytammy. I wonder if Tammytammy has returned in a new screen name mdoif.
They really speak the same and both argue like A man with no emotion. I wonder if yael can look into this because mdoif is totally not talking like a woman and is probably a pathetic older single guy who gets excited arguing with woman.

I find your accusations disgusting. Tammytammy was never emotionless, male or not. Also, he wasn't pathetic, or single. He obviously enjoyed arguing points of Torah and considered women to be knowledgeable enough to do such.
Mdoif obviously speaks like a woman because SHE IS ONE. Yael has since confirmed this and posted this in this thread.

mdoif

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 10:10 am

amother wrote:

I never really cared about the posts accusing me of being a man, because at the core they're nothing more than ad hominem attacks by weak posters who can't argue with my words. Those attacks were actually wuite hypocritical, as they were usually made using the amother feature, which is just as against the rules as it is for a man to post here. In any case, it shows the attacker to be quite gutless.

What I did find ironic, is that in areas where men usually have more expertise, I.e. halacha, male issues etc., I suddenly lacked the qualifications. I was somehow being accused of 'manhood' at the same time as I was told I haven't a clue in male related issues. Oh well...

emhabanim

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 10:22 am

mdoif wrote:

You don't know me at all so don't assume I have no firsthand experience with beis din. However just because there's no kosher meat to be bought doesn't mean we can buy treyf. Yes there are occasions when it's muttar to go to court, but deciding such shaalos on one's own is extremely hazardous for their olam haba. Is it worth it???

Many woo tell yu that the SA and Rama were talking about places where courts were antis emetic and out to get Jews unfairly. To those courts it is assur to go but not in today's courts in the USA.

mdoif

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 10:43 am

emhabanim wrote:

Many woo tell yu that the SA and Rama were talking about places where courts were antis emetic and out to get Jews unfairly. To those courts it is assur to go but not in today's courts in the USA.

Please don't write things that are absolutely wrong and against halacha. Going to court is assur even if the court rules exactly like the SA. Nothing to do with antisemitism.

Learning

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 11:34 am

amother wrote:

In case anyone is interested the parents got a heter to go to court and were told they must go.

Bh s-xual abuse will not be swept under the rug anymore.

I am so happy they got a heter. I'm so furious that meisles got away with murder. It's just not fair. People have to know they can't just use weak individuals and use a loophole to get away with it.

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 11:52 am

Learning wrote:

I am so happy they got a heter. I'm so furious that meisles got away with murder. It's just not fair. People have to know they can't just use weak individuals and use a loophole to get away with it.

Even with a heter meisels still might get a way with it due to his family name plus the fact that he has money and are close with many big rabbonim.

It's sad that in today's times people get away with things because of their name or because of who they know.

Hopefully Hashem will make sure that the court sees the truth and he won't get away with it.

emhabanim

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 2:46 pm

mdoif wrote:

Please don't write things that are absolutely wrong and against halacha. Going to court is assur even if the court rules exactly like the SA. Nothing to do with antisemitism.

And there are plenty of rabbonim who will tell you in instances of abuse etc that going to today's court system is not assur.
So please, why not take your advice and stop posting things as absolute Halacha when they are not. There are very few halachos out there that don't have caveats and exceptions and kula and Chumra and mitigating points. There are very few halachos out there that are in complete agreement about all issues by all poskim. As you do not know Halacha inside out with ALL poskim from the Gemara to rishonim to achronim to contemporary and not just in your particular hashkafa, posting something as 100 percent assur shows ignorance and a superficial approach to yiddishkeit.