"We are too Machshiv Torah to homeschool"

HappytoHS

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 2:55 am

amother wrote:

What is a good reason to homeschool besides financial reasons or oy avoid bullying?

Great question. Here are just some of the ways my children are benefiting from homeschooling:

Self-motivation, curiosity and a natural interest in learning all manner of subjects from Kodesh to chol. (They have been schooled for many years and although they were naturally curious children and loved learning in theory, school knocked all that right out of them. They hated anything that smelled of learning. You'd never know it now!)

They can learn at their own pace and level of intensity, so they can be ahead in some subjects, behind in others, learn some things more deeply or less, and learn things that their schooled peers aren't learning at all if it interests them. There are so many more creative learning opportunities available and so many interesting people who contribute to their learning.

Less external pressures. Yes, they still learn how to follow a schedule and that sometimes they need to do things they don't want to do just because they need to be done. That's naturally built into life, no matter where a child learns. They tend to take more responsibility for themselves and for doing the things they want to do.

Homeschooling has helped us build strong relationships with each child and they have built strong relationships with each other. This is ultimately the strongest foundation for healthy socialization, and our children are wonderful with other children of all ages as well as adults. (Yes, they still have arguments but it is obvious that they genuinely like each other and enjoy being together when they didn't before.)

Each child has come to know him/herself so much better through homeschooling and they have benefited in increased self-confidence and positive self-image which affects every area of their lives.

This is not to say things are always perfect in our homeschool, but overall and day-to-day, there have been so many benefits. If I had to sum it up in one word, I would say Joy.

amother

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 8:59 am

HappytoHS wrote:

Can you clarify how exactly it works practically? Are you trained as a teacher? Where do you get your curricula? How do interesting people contribute to their learning- in what way? They go to some classes outside the home? So they socialize with each other, what about other kids?

Very unfamiliar with this thanks. To be honest I still feel like they could get many of those same positives from going to school, so I'm still not sure why a parent would make the decision to homeschool besides financial or severe social issues (bullying etc).

amother

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 12:08 pm

amother wrote:

As someone who was HS'd and went to "regular" school I can tell you I was much happier in HS.we didn't choose to HS for financial or bullying reasons- although those are 2 reasons. Others choose it because the pace in the local school is too fast or just not fast enough. Or because the local school doesn't teach enough. Or there is no frum school in their area. Peer pressure. I could go on with reasons but they are as many as the kids who homeschool.
My mother isn't a trained teacher (but could have been!) so check your state laws- every state does it differently. For socialization- you meet up with other kids who homeschool, engage in after school activities (boy/Girl Scouts-there are frum troops all over, sports, music classes....) or have play dates! Not much socialization happen at school during class except learning to take turns speaking, listening and following rules. Recess and lunch are the times to be with peers-and there are so many ways to get that!
I wouldn't trade my HS years for any other school. I learned more than my peers did as well as able to learn how to sew, cook, iron, do sports. I learned to think for myself and question "why" unlike one school I know where everyone parrots. My mother was able to teach me practical uses for math- cooking (fractions), grocery store, budgets, "which product is cheaper per oz" which most of my friends never figured out. We could easily go to a local museum for a history/science topic we were learning. I loved learning and learned to love to read. Still do. Even though the regular school killed it for part of my school years. Memorize this and that-why? Just to have something to test us on? Read a book and analyze every sentence??? "Don't read beyond chapter 5". No wonder kids hate learning and reading! I read one book, as fast as I wanted to, did 1-2 assignments on it and moved to the next book. I read so many books because we didn't dwell on it for 4 months! We didn't stop their natural curiosity!
Now HS is not for everyone but it made me closer to my mom until today and I learned so many skills. Research, self motivation, time management, to think.

Gitch

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 1:38 pm

amother wrote:

As amother below said, there are as many reasons to homeschool as there are homeschooled kids! My family is part of the growing number of families who are choosing to do so, for many of the reasons happytohs listed above. Not because of any problems in our local school - no bullying, my kids did well academically and socially and we b'h were able to afford tuition. We chose to give our children a different type of education - one that takes into account their individual differences and interests and learning styles. I get to focus on their emotional development, with a depth that I wouldn't have the time for if they were in school. We also have a different connection to learning - we learn all the time, and everywhere, not limited to a school building, specific hours or only from teacher prescribed books.

To answer some of your specific questions:
I personally have a degree in early childhood and elemetary education, but my older kids are in middle school. Many parents who homeschool don't have any background in education, but they do have an interest in their children. If there is s/t we don't feel comfortable teaching, we find s/o who is.

Many families use the same curriculu your schooled kids are using. We can use books from Torah Umesorah, P'tach etc., print worksheets from e-chinuch, buy books at our local bookstores. For secular, some states provide a curriculum, others buy from the dozens of suppliers who cater to homeschool families. There are online programs, tutors, websites etc. that cater to homeschoolers.

We have met many interesting people who have taught us a lot. A lot is because we have to time to be out in our community during the day, and have the time to ask questions and get answers. For example, there was a fire in our neighborhood and when we drove by the next day, my 12 y.o. asked lots of questions. I could answer some things, but not all. That same day, we bumped into an old neighbor, who is a retired fire captain. So we spent half hour discussing fire fighting protocol. Another story: We crossed a bridge and another child asked questions about how bridges are built and stay up. A few weeks later I struck up a conversation with s/o at the library, who happened to be a structural engineer! Tada, my kids got a lesson in bridge design and engineering and then took out a stack of books on bridges to further their learning.

I live in an area with many other homeschoolers and we get together for many types of classes and activities. Some more academic, some more social, but we have many opportunities for lots of learning and fun. Many museums, nature centers, historical societies offer classes specifically for homeschoolers, some people join coops where parents teach classes on their expertise. Local gyms often hold separate homeschool hours, or we meet at the park or playground.

Our kids are definitely not isolated! Aside from meeting other homeschoolers, we are also part of a frum community. They see their schooled friends on shabbos and Sunday and school holidays. We join the local pirchei type groups, have neighbors and join others' birthday parties. We also have to chance to learn to interact with adults, and kids older and younger than us.

The pace is my home is very calm - we are not rushing out in the morning, then rushing to do homework and bedtime in the evening. There is a peace and a joy, like happytohs said above, that is wonderful. We enjoy being together, and learning together.

amother

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 1:52 pm

amother wrote:

What is a good reason to homeschool besides financial reasons or oy avoid bullying?

OP here.

I chose to homeschool my children because I want them to have a lifelong love for learning, and to have an inner passion for the things they chose to do. In homeschool, I have the opportunity to tailor each child's curriculum and learning pace to his/her own needs and interests. We choose to also learn all the standard subjects taught in regular schools, but we don't focus on them. Instead, each child's educational focus is chosen by themselves.

I also chose to homeschool my children because I wanted them to have a deep and meaningful Kodesh education. I want them to know Tanach inside and out, backwards and forwards, and by heart. I also want them to be independent thinkers when it comes to Torah learning, to be able to ask questions and to seek answers. To be active in their learning instead of passively repeating the Rebbe's chanting. In the younger grades, there is so much more to learning than pointing to the place, and in the older grades, there is so much more to learning than memorizing the way the Rebbe chants the gemorrah. Gemorrah is supposed to be an interactive learning experience, how is that possible in a classroom of at least 20 boys, usually more? How can any younger child learning Chumash find deep meaning in the text if the main goal is to not lose the place and never speak if it isn't your turn?

I want my children to have a very deep Torah education together with a very meaningful secular education. I want them to be thorough in Torah knowledge and also educated enough to go to the highest Ivy League college if they want. I want them to want. I want them to choose to continue to be frum once they are adults because they have found the truth in Torah, not to feel forced to stay frum because of societal pressure.

I want my children to get to know themselves on a deep level. I want them to discover who they are, what they like, where they can succeed and where they feel uncomfortable. I want them to know that they have choices in life, that this world is so much bigger than one single curriculum, and I want them to explore the world.

I chose to homeschool because I want more for my kids than any school even attempts to offer. I wanted for my kids what only a parent can give them. I want to give it to them as long as I can and while I still can. I don't want to waste this precious opportunity of inspiring my children and giving them the tools and skills to carry that inspiration to wherever life takes them. And I want them to know that life can only take them wherever they choose to go.

You cannot find any of those lessons in a classroom.

HappytoHS

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 5:01 pm

amother wrote:

I am not trained as a teacher. One of the strongest skills I bring to my homeschool is not my ability to teach. It’s my ability to learn. I don’t have to know everything that my children need or want to learn. I just have to be able to find great resources, whether that’s books, museums, classes, shiurim, projects, experts or online resources. I teach them many things but we learn many more things together.

There are so many curriculum choices available in addition to what schools use and there are many online homeschool resources for researching and buying curricula. I read a lot and I speak to long-time homeschoolers for advice on what worked for their children. My children are voracious readers and much of what they learn comes from regular books we find at the library or buy on Amazon. (They also like to go to the bookstore when everyone is in school and choose interesting looking textbooks to curl up with.)

In terms of Kodesh, we create our own “curriculum” based on what we feel it is important for our children to learn. This includes Tanach, bekius, mishna and gemara for the boys, practical halacha like Shabbos, kashrus and tefila, yamim tovim and related mitzvos and lots and lots of hashkafa. Our hashkafa. This list doesn’t begin to describe it all because so much of their learning is organic and interconnected and one thing leads to another and halacha is connected to science and yamim tovim are connected to world history and Jewish history and the mishkan is connected to engineering etc. We do have regular learning sessions but so much learning happens in the car and at the Shabbos table and in the kitchen.

A poster above has described her children’s encounters with interesting people who they learn from. It happens for us in much the same way. Our kids can strike up a conversation with just about anybody and will show an interest in the other person that gets people sharing their interesting life experiences.

Our children all have neighborhood friends, shul friends, camp friends, friends from their after school activities and since most of them have been to school they have their school friends too. We also get together regularly with a group of other homeschooling families.

As previous posters have said, there are as many different reasons to homeschool (and ways to homeschool) as there are homeschoolers. Some parents make the choice to homeschool because they believe that they as parents should be the primary influence in their children's lives rather than teachers or peers and that parents educating their children is the default and outsourcing their education is Plan B. Since they can, they do.

granolamom

Thu, Sep 11 2014, 6:49 pm

yo'ma wrote:

I'm with the group that doesn't see anything wrong with the comment, I would never be able to do it. I've said stupid, insensitive remarks before due to stupidity and/or ignorance, but never out of rudeness. (I know that it is rude, but not from the same place.). My question to all who think the comment is rude, how should we say it that it won't in any shape, way, or form sound rude?

I've heard that comment ("I could never homeschool") a million times and honestly, I've never found it offensive in and of itself. I think this is one instance when context matters. well, context and body language/tone.
most people who say that to me just mean that they either lack confidence in their ability to buck the system, educate their own child, or manage to stay sane while being home 24/7 with their kids. I have a feeling that most of them could do it if they thought their child really needed them to, most of us mothers do find a way to rise to those sorts of challenges. however, sometimes, I can tell that someone is just judging me and my decisions and trying to say something that expresses that she thinks I am not 'enough' in some way or that she is 'better' in some way and then the actual word choice does not matter. if you feel judgemental and holier than thou, you will come across that way. and if not, you probably won't.

(and of course, "I could never do that" and "I would never do that" are two very different statements. I think the first is ok, and the second is best left unsaid)

amother

Fri, Sep 12 2014, 12:10 am

yo'ma wrote:

OP here.

It took me a few years of hearing "I could NEVER do that" before I acknowledged that it is an offensive comment. It often has a tone of distancing to it, and it often comes after a judgemental question. For example, this is the way I hear it most often: "My kids LOVE their friends, how will your kids ever have friends?" So I give my list of ways that we meet people and my list of venues where you can find people other than in school, and the response is, "I could NEVER do it." Or they will say something along the lines of "What was wrong with the school?" and then follow up with "I could Never do it." Those are passive-aggressively insulting comments. It is along the lines of "Wow, you look great, you must have lost at least 100 pounds!" What? I said you look great! Why are you insulted? So sensitive....

As granolamom said, context and body language matters a lot.

It isn't always insulting. Some people say things like "You must have a lot of patience, I know I could never homeschool." Or, "Wow, I am impressed, I could never do what you do." Or, "That sounds really amazing, I could never do it." Those comments are not insulting. But for the most part, the comment usually comes after another very judgmental comment, as a way of finishing the conversation. Sort of like a "well, if it works for you...." (and the "you" is said with a slight emphasis.)

Also, the way you phrased it, "I would never be able to do it" is not necessarily insulting, unless it did come after an "aren't you afraid your kids will lack the skills necessary for life?" But specifically this: "I could NEVER do that" is offensive.

HappytoHS

Fri, Sep 12 2014, 1:55 am

granolamom wrote:

I agree with all this.

We've actually gotten a lot more of "I wish I could do that" than "I could never do that."

We don't hide the fact that we homeschool but we aren't in your face about it either. If someone ask questions, I can usually gauge whether they are really interested in honest answers about what we do or not so much and I answer accordingly. To those very few who are clearly being judgmental when they ask why we homeschool we keep it short and simple and say something like "we wanted to be more involved in our children's education" and leave it at that. If they keep it going it doesn't matter what I say because they aren't really listening to me anyway so I just nod and smile and uh-huh until they finish thinking out loud and move on. I don't need to convince anyone.

amother

Sun, Sep 21 2014, 10:36 am

Anon because even though I'm sure this is not the only case of this happening with these specifics, my writing style can also be unique and I know this person is on here at least sometimes.

I want to thank you for writing this post, OP. All the responses, too. DD is not yet old enough for school, but when she is (and any of her future siblings are), we plan on homeschooling/unschooling/some variation of that. DH and I both feel "meh" on the yeshiva system where we are. I'm a sort of "non-traditional" BT (or so it seems, I never went to seminary or anything, just learned on my own), he's FFB and was homeschooled for the early years, and has a fabulous educational foundation and love of learning, and a great deal of Torah knowledge, all instilled at home. DD is now in playgroup because in her young years I do need to work and I do want her to develop social skills and she loves being around kids her own age, but I also don't understand why people think all social skills are developed during school hours. Don't they remember camp friends and friends they made from extracurricular activities? Weren't (in many cases, even into adulthood, aren't) those the best friends we have?

DH and I had an argument with good friends, neither of whom are FFB, a bit ago when discussing this educational choice, mostly because of this exact statement. They were essentially saying, ad nauseum, that there was no way we could successfully instill Torah knowledge at home. Now, maybe I couldn't do it alone because I don't have the background. Maybe they couldn't, for the same reason... they didn't learn Torah at a young age in the way DD will, or that DH did. But they continued to say that we essentially didn't care at all about our children's chinuch, especially in Yiddishkeit, if we were choosing to homeschool, and that there's no way our kids can turn out frum if we do, and I found that offensive, ignorant, and mostly, really upsetting. Other people in my family are also doing their best to undermine this decision once they find out about it, even if they do agree with most of our reasons, and I think I may print out this post and show it to them. Thank you for the encouragement I needed to strengthen this decision. Also I didn't realize there was a homeschool group on here... I guess I'll have to join that someday! Besides the group, where are some good resources for frum homeschooling with also a focus on secular education?

amother

Sun, Sep 21 2014, 11:31 am

I don't know any people who were precisely homeschooled, but one woman I know went to public school and had a tutor at home for limudei kodesh in grade school. She did so well that she aced the entrance exam and was accepted to the most academically competitive girls' hebrew HS in town, where she continued to excel. Granted, she was exceptionally bright, but still. Lots of girls from my excellent, academically competitive TorahUmesorah-type school didn't get in to that school despite strong coaching and time dedicated in school to practice for the exam.

The dd of a friend of mine was homeschooled for a few years in elementary due to some health issues. Also an exceptionally bright girl, I think she really taught herself more than her mother teaching her. she was eventually accepted to a prestigious seminary and is now an elementary-school teacher of limudei kodesh.

So it's doable, obviously, at least for very bright individuals. I have no anecdotal references for not-so-bright individuals.

granolamom

Sun, Sep 21 2014, 6:33 pm

amother wrote:

Let me just say that the yeshivas don't exactly have a great track record for the 'not so bright individuals' as you call them
And as a homeschooler I can tell you that it's easier for a homeschooling parent to really reach and inspire those who typically fall through the cracks at school. Not to mention the preservation of self esteem and sense of self worth when not constantly compared to the 'brighter individuals' in school