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What do you think?
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 13 2014, 10:02 pm
Frumdoc wrote:
Did she approve the fabric, knowing that the different texture would make the dress look different? That is important in understanding whether she was justified in rejecting the dress or not.

If she knew the dress would look different, and in what way the difference in fabric would affect the overall appearance, and she was happy with this fabric and the possibility it would look quite different to the dress she was having copied, and then decided she was not happy after several fittings and the foreknowledge of the necessary changes, I would think she is duty bound to pay, even if she doesn't want it in that condition.

If she was not clear about how the change in fabric would affect the overall look, and it was never explicitly explained to her, she may be justified in rejecting it, as she was under the impression that it would be identical, even if it was clear to the dressmaker it couldn't be.


I agree wholeheartedly.

A competent seamstress should be aware of how different fabrics will affect the look, fit and feel of a garment. I would not expect the average consumer to understand that. If the differences were not explained, then I don't think the customer should be responsible for paying for a finished garment that was not as anticipated. The fact that she saw the dress after it was made is not relevant, except perhaps that the seamstress should be compensated for the alterations alone.

Someone asked if when when orders a dress, it is supposed to be exactly like the sample. The answer is obvious -- of course it is! You only have the black skirt in an 8, I need a 10. You order it, and it's polyester, not wool, pleated instead of straight, and 4 inches longer than I wanted it. Do I have to pay you?

Well, same thing here. The stiffer fabric didn't lay or move correctly. It's not at all the same.

AYLORabba or Rebbetzin. Since she's more likely to understand.
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d l




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 13 2014, 10:06 pm
Off the bat I would say customer should pay, but thinking into it, it doesn't seem so clear.

Seems like a lack of communication or clear outlines for the customer who is ordered the dress.

At what point is the customer obligated to pay for the dress? From when she hires the seamstress (even if she will be paying the balance later) or only if she is happy with the outcome?

It also sounds like the fact that the fabric leads to a different outcome wasn't clear. I wouldn't have known that.

Someone is going to have to eat the cost here for a dress they don't want, and I would understand each persons reasoning.

It would be interesting to know what the Halacha in this situation would be.

I hope the situation resolves peacefully- these things happen in business and life and hopefully everyone walks away smarter
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amother


 

Post Sun, Sep 14 2014, 12:09 am
chani8 wrote:
The client ordered a dress a specific way and is getting something different. The seamstress should drop the price significantly to make up for that, but be prepared that the client has the right to not take the dress. Regardless that she saw it twice already.

You're suggesting that since she saw it already, she should've said something then. But if changing the material wasn't an option, what was she supposed to say??? The seamstress told her it had to be that stiff material. And that means the seamstress cannot produce the order correctly.

Of course the seamstress couldn't change the material after the first fitting but at least she would have stopped doing alterations on the dress.

If, in your opinion, the customer should not pay for the dress then at the very least she should pay for those alterations.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 14 2014, 12:16 am
amother wrote:
Of course the seamstress couldn't change the material after the first fitting but at least she would have stopped doing alterations on the dress.

If, in your opinion, the customer should not pay for the dress then at the very least she should pay for those alterations.


Perhaps the customer thought the alterations would enable the dress to lay correctly. It really depends on how much the seamstress communicated to the customer. I can't see the customer paying the full price in any event.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 14 2014, 12:53 am
This customer wanted the dress that she ordered, in the color she ordered. She's not a seamstress to understand materials and such. All she understands is that this dress is not what she ordered, not what she wanted.

You're trying to convince the customer that it's close enough to the same thing or that you did the best you could so she should pay anyway. Seems like the customer tried to be a good sport about it, but in the end, she wasn't satisfied with your work.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 14 2014, 12:54 am
amother wrote:
Of course the seamstress couldn't change the material after the first fitting but at least she would have stopped doing alterations on the dress.

If, in your opinion, the customer should not pay for the dress then at the very least she should pay for those alterations.


Yes, she should pay for the additional alterations.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 14 2014, 4:54 am
amother wrote:
To those that say she is not getting what she ordered, can you elaborate please? When you custom order something based on a sample you expect it to be exactly the same?

Isn't that the point? It sounds like the whole reason the woman custom ordered a dress was to get a specific dress in a specific color. If she'd wanted the same dress in a different color, or the same color but didn't care about the style, she could have found something at a shop - no?

I think it's a complicated situation. It doesn't seem entirely fair for either woman to have to pay the whole cost. It sounds like they both did the best they could (the customer described exactly what she wanted, and wasn't given information that could have affected her decision (at least, not in a way she could understand), and tried to find a way to be happy with the dress; the seamstress tried to give the necessary information and tried to make the customer happy).
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Sep 14 2014, 5:01 am
Also -
amother wrote:
For example, if you see a piece of furniture made from oak wood but order it in another wood, does the seller specifically have to say that there will be differences because different kinds of wood stain and look different?

Yes. They specifically have to say that. You can't expect a random person who doesn't work in the furniture industry to know the difference between different types of wood (or types of paint, different tiles, etc).

Most professionals have samples available for exactly that reason.

The one exception IMHO would be if the buyer was the one who requested a specific thing of their own initiative. Like, if they say, "I want this, but in cherry wood," it's not unreasonable to assume they know what cherry wood is and have a reason for asking for it. But if you say, "I'm going to make it in cherry, not oak" - you MUST tell them exactly how those two things are different.
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