Can't sleep in seminary

SacN

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 1:40 pm

I agree with all above comments.

I suffered a lot from this in seminary. I am a miserable crabby unfocussed wreak without sleep. I liked to wake up with time to daven before my first class. I exercised, showered, davened and ate breakfast.
Other girls rolled out of bed and into class.

Thankfully, for my sleep, I had a roommate who also liked to retire early. She and I insisted on quiet, and frequently dragged ourselves out of bed to grouse at girls partying in the hallways outside our room.
I would warn your daughter against this course of action--it did nothing good for our social lives.

This is the first time many of these girls need to self regulate. It's normal for girls to be up very late, and they are young and still learning to be considerate towards others. It's frustrating when you are up hours more, and are prohibited from using anything in your bedroom because someone is sleeping, every night. Or so I hear.

I second earplugs and an eyemask. I didn't discover them in seminary, but only after, when I had young children at home. The ability to put my husband "on duty" and take a nap saves my sanity. Good earplugs work. Really. I can sleep through a crying baby, if I know I'm not in charge and his needs are being met.

seeker

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 1:58 pm

I disagree and also object to the generalized putting-down of the entire population of post-high-school frum girls, most of whom are well-meaning, growing young ladies, albeit lacking in life experience and the maturity it brings.

I think she should have a conversation with her roommates about how they can arrange the evenings to everyone's satisfaction. Maybe the majority of hanging out can be done in a room with no early/sensitive sleepers. Maybe if it's the on/off light action that bothers her, she can ask that they just leave the lights on. Or maybe a small lamp can be used so she can have a dim sleeping environment while they can still find their way/stuff when they return.

I had this situation in seminary and we all compromised. I had one roommate who was a sensitive/early sleeper and one who loved to party. I was in between. The party girl had social life in our room during daytime and early evening hours, then moved on to her friends' rooms. We spread the word and posted a sign on our door and people were mostly sensitive not to make a racket right outside our room when the door was closed for the night. Sometimes noise happened, but it wasn't an all-night/every-night occurrence. For my part, I found that changes in the environment disrupted my sleep more than any single condition, so I just asked that if they were going to be still coming in and out while I slept, they should just leave the light ON because turning it off and on and off would bother me more than just sleeping with the light on. Even with an eye mask, which would also have been uncomfortable as a long-term solution. With a little communication and reasonableness, these young ladies should be able to work something out between themselves.

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 1:58 pm

My DS has this in mesivta. There is a lights out curfew that is enforced sometimes. We talked to the dorm Rebbe and he enforced it, but there are still bochrim up late in the halls. He enforced it without telling the boys that anyone complained.

In the future she should ask for quiet roommates, but that won't help you now. Although some seminaries will do room switches halfway through the year if girls come in from Australia and South Africa. She can calmly as her roommates to go in and out as quietly as possible and keep the fun outside the room after a certain time.

Bottom line- she may need to switch the early rising schedule that has worked for her so far and start waking up later.

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 3:05 pm

sounds so different to the british seminaries where the madricha and other appointed girls (I forgot they have a specific name) ensure curfew and silence after lights out.
I guess the girls really need a lesson (I mean a real classroom talk) about thinking of others and bein adom lechavero. Now is the time when they are away from home learning independence...
Hope ur dd gets her much needed rest!

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 3:41 pm

abby1776 wrote:

Isnt there an "Aim Ha bayit" or a Madricha she can talk to and ask for help?

I am an aim bayit in a sem. We have all lights go off on a timer at 12 for that exact reason. Some girls are embarrassed to speak up and ask to shut the lights. So midnight is a fair time. We have a lounge, classroom and lunchroom where the girls who want to be up can hang out. And luckily in our sem the girls do feel comf to come over to aim bayit. WHen I do get complaints (maybe ur daughter is in my sem and she is not complainng!) I stay later to make sure to break up all chatting in hallways and when I leave (like 1 a!) I tell the madraichot to supervise floor # outside room #....
It pays to speak up. I get so upset in april or worse off june when girls complain and I didn't know about it a whole year. it is hard to speak up to the girls, she needs to tell the madraichot/aim bayit.
In addition, she will need to get used to it becc. as much as we try doesn't help but what a few girls do is fall asleep with the eye mask and listen to music/shiur to drown out noise or earplugs.
Hope she has a great year!

amother

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 6:21 pm

This is part of the reality of seminary.
I had an amazing room (FIVE GIRLS IN VERY TINY SPACE) but this was an understood aspect of dorming. unless u were sick, there will be talking in the room late at night, this is very normal.
My sem had lights out at midnight, so after that it got quieter but still there were nights where u had to learn to sleep through noise.
she needs to learn how to deal with others and sleep through some things, or it will hurt her socially.
there were room that had issues and honestly those girls were mostly the ones who had issues with other stuff as well, it earned them a rep- not saying its right its just a reality....
if its really extreme- ie blasting music at 2 am she can say k guys im going to bed. there wont be silence but they will prob lower the volume

ValleyMom

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 6:44 pm

This is perfectly normal when you get a bunch of girls together.
There WILL be talking
Sometimes LOUD talking and it may be punctuated with loud raucous laughter.

That being said they should have some sort of decency about keeping a LIGHT that is turned off.
This is common courtesy not rocket science.

Even when we were campers in overnight camp the lights were OFF in the bunk. We kept laughing and giggling but the lights remained off.

That being said your daughter need some good earplugs.

Frumdoc

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 7:46 pm

Can she find some girls who want the same and swap around rooms?

My friends did this in sem all those hundreds of years ago, it was just common sense to put quiet girls together and louder ones together. There was loads of swapping around, I am sure it can't be such a unique situation.

Although if she is in Gateshead she will have to wait for a few months and hope for a small 3 and not a big 8, get some earplugs and blindfold and an extra blanket and hide in a corner (will soon be cold enough to need it anyway!)

iluvy

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 8:01 pm

I can't believe the posts who say this is the reality of seminary! This isn't camp or a sleepover, this is her home for the year, and she has classes to be up for the next morning -- as do the party girls. It's normal to be up talking until 3 am, but it's outrageous for this to happen in your room if your roommate is sleeping. The only thing I can think of to excuse the behavior is that they genuinely think your daughter doesn't mind. She should immediately tell them that this isn't working for her, and work with them to settle on a reasonable time for lights out.

Signed, a seminary party girl, who was out of her room every night from 11:30 to 3, and who changed into pajamas in the bathroom so as not to wake her early, light-sleeping roommate!

(And yes, sarcastic poster upthread, we all recognized the gravity of gezel sheina and took it very seriously.)

spring13

Sun, Oct 05 2014, 8:02 pm

Earplugs and a sleep mask (maybe a white noise machine?) can help for now. Sitting down and making some kind of roommate agreement will help in the long term. Can they get a Shabbos lamp or nightlight or desk light to provide some light for the later-to-beds that won't be as disruptive to the earlies as snapping on bright overheads? Set some kind of personal "no hanging out in here past X o'clock" plan just for their room, complete with a sign to hang on the doorknob? It's unrealistic to expect that people outside or in common areas will whisper if the school doesn't enforce it, but she ought to be able to improve conditions or make some compromises with her own roommates. If their behavior is really extreme (listening to loud music at 3 am), then yes she should go to a madricha or eim bayit.

From your POV, you want to help her solve the problem - but like others have said, struggling a little will build character. She'll have the experience of dealing with people who aren't on her wavelength and learning to adapt to the needs or behaviors of others. You don't need to tell her that when she calls and complains, but maybe remembering it can bolster you while you listen.