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Trying a new tactic with my moody teen...
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 1:33 am
okay. I am trying something new with my moody teenager. I am trying to completely ignore his attitude/moods/chutzpah, and only respond to the content of what he is saying/doing. as if I have some kind of emotional block and don't even notice the nastiness coming off of him. let's see how this goes. so far he has just gotten a bit more attitudy, I guess because he hasn't gotten the desired rise out of me, but on the flip side he spontaneously hugged me twice today! shock (that hasn't happened in a while...) anyone else ever try something like this? I am curious to see if I can keep this up for at least a week...
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:43 am
Yes, I've tried, "I'm trying to listen to your words, but your tone is kind of scary." To which I get the response, "This is just how I talk!" Ew.

I like using mantras to calm myself. "Listen to the words, not the tone." But when the words suck, it's hard.

I try really hard to not engage in conversation with a teen who is being rude. I will just get up and walk out. It's always better to not fight, imo.
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newme




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 4:47 am
Black Sheep - IMO this is not only a great tactic, but the only tactic that is really going to work.
I have had personal experience, and the results can be phenomenal.
A few tips:
* it isn't enough to just ignore the attitude externally, you have to work on yourself to REALLY ignore it. Just pick the words out of his speech and decide you couldn't care less about the way he is saying it - it's only a facade.
* Don't activate a stopwatch. "trying it for a week" is better than not trying at all - but it isn't optimal. What would be even better would be you deciding that you are making a change in how you deal with him, and it is a permanent one. Why would you do that? Because you believe he is innately a good child and wants to please you. Because you believe that "kamayim panim el panim" - I.e. one heart reflects another, and when you treat him with love and respect it's goinng to be very hard for him to continue showing attitude indefinitely. Standing there with a metaphorical timer, however, and "waiting to see how long it takes" will defeat the purpose - he will pick up on your impatience and WILL continue to up the ante and to push boundaries in order to see how long it takes you to break. When your external attitude genuinely reflects an inner change in you, however, he will pick up on that, too - and eventually he'll see there's nothing to be gained by being difficult and everything to be gained by reciprocating mentschlich behavior.
You will need a lot of patience, and an even greater reservoir of genuine trust that this is the right way to go.

It's all about disengaging. Reprogramming your inner script of how you see him and how you deal wit him. NO power struggles, no anger, no negativity. You love him, you respect him and you simply don't see his annoying habits. I'm not saying it's easy - but it is an extremely powerful way of getting your son to change for the better. Your change is his change.
Wishing you every hatzlocho!
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sneakermom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 5:42 am
I love the idea.

Neutralizing the negative by completely not recognizing it. While validating the content of his words. Responding to what he has to say.

And two spontaneous hugs in a day? Wow. It sounds like he is thanking you for understanding him.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 7:20 am
It sounds like a fabulous start!

With my moody one, I often will rephrase the comment, so that she can hear the proper way to express her feelings, but without rancor, just calmly.

To give an example that happened last week:

"Well, I see the person who birthed me has time to spend with everyone else but me, and now is too tired for me." (Slam).

"It sounds like you really wanted some time with me, and are angry that you didn't get any."

"Yeah, you had time for X and Y and Z, but now that I want you, you're too tired."

"Honey, there is a lot going on, but the time to politely ask for attention is at 8:30, not at 10. How about if I make a commitment that around 8:30 tomorrow, I'll make sure to give time to you?"

"Okay, then. Make sure you do it."

"I see it is really important to you. I'm looking forward to our time. Good night, I love you.

"Love you, Mom."
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 9:01 am
This works brilliantly with my moody tween, too.

I also add that it's OK to be upset, angry, sad, whatever. Having moods is perfectly valid. What you DO with those moods though, is your responsibility. There are ways to express yourself that are OK, and ways that are not OK. You can say that you are angry with me, but I will not put up with verbal abuse.

I will never punish her for having a "bad mood", though. It's mostly a combination of middle school adjustment and hormones, and she can't really help that part. All I can do is empathize and talk about how hard middle school was for me, too.
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proudmother1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 9:09 am
Just weighing in on this. Not necessarily contradicting anyone here.
If you ignore the nastiness, what will ever teach this child that it isn't OK to behave this way? What will prevent this child from getting used to being rude to his loved ones, and still getting his way? Because you are responding to his words/requests?
How do you know that his or her friend/teacher/future spouse will also be fine with "ignoring" the rudeness, while responding to the issue at hand?
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 12:19 pm
proudmother1, I think it is more likely that my kids will treat their spouses the way I treat my kids, not the way I tell them to treat me. so in other words, he is more likely to model my behavior than to learn to treat people nicely by me yelling at him for his behavior.

newme, you made me laugh. your post was more than a bit condescending, and wrongly assumes more about my parenting and my inner feelings than I posted. I will not respond to your post specifically, but I will only ask: have you ever tried this with your moody teenage children?

chani8, franticfrumie, imasinger, I am happy to see I am not the only one struggling to disengage. this particular teen is the cliche of moody teen. he is emotional by nature, so add teenage hormones and you can only imagine the drama! I am the worst mother ever one moment because I didn't punish my toddler for breaking my phone, and I am the best mother on earth that ever existed the next moment because supper tastes heavenly. yes, this both happened last night within about five minutes. (one of the hugs was in response to a perfectly grilled burger.)

I know he will make a wonderful husband, he is so loving and kind, but right now he is also a teenager with teenage moodiness, and pointing out his rudeness hasn't really done much besides for escalate anger, so I decided to try seriously just ignoring it.

sneakermom, you summed it up well. I want to validate him, not ignore him, but I don't want to get into a discussion (quite heated at times) about how he delivered his words. so I am choosing to ignore the method. for now.

chani8, like you, I generally try to leave the room and just plain disengage if he is being continuously rude. but my new tactic is to try to pretend I am emotionally blind, that I seriously don't even notice his tone and tempter. I really am not sure how this will work out, it is an experiment. I'll keep you all posted Smile
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 12:34 pm
I have teens also. I don't know if I could ignore them being nasty to me twice in one time period. When they have tested me, I make them rephrase. I tell them that I know that they don't want to speak to their mother that way. They know they are expected to apologize. I get so hurt when there isn't a nice atmosphere.

Black sheep, how do you tolerate this without being hurt? Does it effect your day? Also do you worry about the effect of the other siblings when they see one carrying on?

Also Black Sheep, I know you have a zero tolerance for certain things. If your teen hit your hot button, could you ignore it?
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 1:11 pm
squishy, teens can be so hurtful! I certainly do get hurt, and I also get sad about the atmosphere in the house turning bad over a teen's mood. somehow, when a teen is in a bad mood, every single person is his target, and no one is happy.

I also ask my teens to rephrase, just like you, and it works really well with my older son (mid teens, less emotional personality.) but even with him, when he is in the throes of an intense teen episode, as I like to call it, nothing can redirect him, except for asking him to remove himself from the situation, or I tell him to "press pause on this, let's return to it later." he harumphs for a little while, until the mood blows over, and then he is back to himself. but my second son is just so emotional to begin with, so the teenage moodiness is really intense! when his mood turns sour, nothing can redirect him. if I ask him to please try saying that in a nicer way, he says it again even more rudely and chutzpadik. so that is why I am trying this, pretending I don't even hear the rude, because nothing else seems to work. my goal right now is for this behavior not to escalate. that is my only goal right now. we can work on better behavior at a later time, maybe when he is a more mature teen (ha! an oxymoron if I ever heard of one!)

but yes it is hurtful. I remind myself that it isn't personal. even that doesn't help sometimes, but it helps at least in my head if not in my heart.

teenagers are a tikkun for us parents. I have no doubt. and I love them to pieces, but sometimes they tear my heart to pieces.

I am not sure what you mean about me having zero tolerance for certain things. but in terms of a teen pushing my buttons, again I just remind myself that it isn't personal, it is teenage stuff. besides, I don't think I have a "hot button." do I?
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mandksima




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 2:47 pm
newme wrote:
Black Sheep - IMO this is not only a great tactic, but the only tactic that is really going to work.
I have had personal experience, and the results can be phenomenal.
A few tips:
* it isn't enough to just ignore the attitude externally, you have to work on yourself to REALLY ignore it. Just pick the words out of his speech and decide you couldn't care less about the way he is saying it - it's only a facade.
* Don't activate a stopwatch. "trying it for a week" is better than not trying at all - but it isn't optimal. What would be even better would be you deciding that you are making a change in how you deal with him, and it is a permanent one. Why would you do that? Because you believe he is innately a good child and wants to please you. Because you believe that "kamayim panim el panim" - I.e. one heart reflects another, and when you treat him with love and respect it's goinng to be very hard for him to continue showing attitude indefinitely. Standing there with a metaphorical timer, however, and "waiting to see how long it takes" will defeat the purpose - he will pick up on your impatience and WILL continue to up the ante and to push boundaries in order to see how long it takes you to break. When your external attitude genuinely reflects an inner change in you, however, he will pick up on that, too - and eventually he'll see there's nothing to be gained by being difficult and everything to be gained by reciprocating mentschlich behavior.
You will need a lot of patience, and an even greater reservoir of genuine trust that this is the right way to go.

It's all about disengaging. Reprogramming your inner script of how you see him and how you deal wit him. NO power struggles, no anger, no negativity. You love him, you respect him and you simply don't see his annoying habits. I'm not saying it's easy - but it is an extremely powerful way of getting your son to change for the better. Your change is his change.
Wishing you every hatzlocho!


I just took an amazing parenting class (Shefer Approach -like the Adler Approach) which says all this and it really works. Black Sheep, I don't think it sounds condescending - she doesn't know your whole story, this is just across the board good and helpful advice. Parents don't realize how their kids connect to them any way they can (often negatively) and a new way of thinking is often the only way to break the cycle.

I have a CRAZY situation with my teen dd and this way of thinking has totally helped me where nothing else has. It is still a work in progress.
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busymother




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 2:54 pm
I know I'm going off topic a little but someone was just telling me about her teen and how he was getting so moody etc. She started giving him multi-vitamins and within a week he was back to his cheery self. But she said it has to be a good brand, Zahlers, Shaklee etc to work. Good luck!
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:01 pm
I told you that sometimes moods are caused by poor nutrition. Sometimes.

Such as fearfulness, and other things.

Sunlight, vitamins, and the occasional steak. Yes. You might as well rule it out.

The clear voice and affectionate support of the father is also Vitamin F. F for father.

Then there is Vitamin M. M for marriage. That is that the teen needs to be reassured that his parents are united in all matters, and their marriage is stable. The teen is entering the dangerous adult world. He desperately needs to know he has solidity behind him as he staggers and teeters on his wobbly newbie legs onto the battlefield.

That means that even if both his parents are bat-crazy, they solidly agree with each other about being bat-crazy. That is Vitamin U. U is for Unity. They back each other up in public, meaning in front of him. They do not undermine or contradict each other. Until he is asleep. Only then, when he is not listening, do they hash out their differences.

Vitamin D is also Vitamin Defend. That means the father does not tolerate anybody dissing his wife. The disser being his own kid makes no difference. He doesn't quite yell, but he one hundred percent quite firm. There is a way you talk to the lady of the house. My house. I sit at the head of the table for a reason, and it isn't just because it's the convenient place to sit.

Let the father of teens not come home too late, or be too tired to mingle and mangle, and listen and talk and stir the pot, about how you are doing in school and who are you seeing and how you look and let us learn and talk together.

A vaguely absent father who just makes a living, tosses off a few weary remarks, eats in silence, and goes to bed, is what produces less than charming teens.

Some creative, special fathers can get a lot done in a short time: a forty minute walk with a kid - "I'm going to get ...., come with me" or being alone, ALONE, in the car with Dad and TALKING not just driving, can go a looooong way. Forty minutes. That's called knowing the moves of being a man. That's called having a full beard.


Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Mon, Oct 20 2014, 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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proudmother1




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:08 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsl_XiyJupg
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:10 pm
I love the idea. thats really what they need. he will tell you at a certain point that you are so good and hes b eing crappy they get it in the end. but you need to be very consistent. or you'll mess up keep it up.
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:40 pm
Thanks sourstix. I also think he knows he is being grouchy, and he just might appreciate me giving him space to be in a bad mood.

Dolly, I like your post, but let me clarify that he is exhibiting normal teenage behavior. He isnt acting out in any way. Grouchiness, moodiness, sarcasm, chutzpah, these are all normal and expected teenage behavoir. The question is how to parent thus moody, chutzpadik normal teenager.

And while I am all for good nutrition and occasionally supplements, I dont think they make a vitamin for wisecracks and snappiness.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:42 pm
What if his wisecracks and snappiness are directed not at you, but at his sibling(s)? Would you adopt the same tactic?
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 3:46 pm
He does pick on his siblings when he is grumpy. I will say, "DS, that is rude and hurtful!" I have heard them yell at him "that is rude and hurtful!" I dont force apologies during a grumpy mood, but I dont let a mean comment to another child slide.

Only rudeness to myself I am going to try to completely not notice. I have to notice hurt to my other children, even just by pointing it out.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 4:59 pm
black sheep wrote:


I am not sure what you mean about me having zero tolerance for certain things. but in terms of a teen pushing my buttons, again I just remind myself that it isn't personal, it is teenage stuff. besides, I don't think I have a "hot button." do I?


I imagine your hot button would be racism IRL also.
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 20 2014, 6:56 pm
I think that racism is learned from one's parents. But in either case, racism is not usually an issue teens and their parents struggle over. And additionally, this particular son is very intelligent and deep, not characteristcs of racist people. So no worries there.
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