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Carpool - was I wrong?
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 7:51 pm
Fox wrote:
That may have been the neighbor's desire, but that doesn't mean the OP can't negotiate different, less formal terms. Even more so, given that the neighbor has a babysitter who could theoretically pick up the child on those occasions when it doesn't work for the OP.

I've been in both formal and informal carpools. You are correct that the formal carpools involve a lot of responsibility and often involve several families. The informal carpools basically ran on the premise that it was stupid and wasteful for two people to pull up to the school and then drive home to the same block while also acknowledging that sometimes it's just not possible or convenient to give rides.

Frankly, I always found the informal carpools to be more congenial. As along as everyone understands that it's an "as available" carpool and makes backup plans, things ran very smoothly.


She could have tried. She did, in a sense. She asked, "you mean every week?" And was met with rejection. "I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool.

Can you imagine that its a cold, rainy day, the OP's DD comes down with the sniffles, and comes home from school before the after-school activity. So now its 4 pm, and OP calls. "Hi, Shana. I won't be able to pick Fruma up today. But I know you have a sitter." "Its 35 degrees outside, and pouring rain. You expect my sitter to take my other 3 kids out in this, and walk 1-1/2 miles each way to school? You promised!"
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momx6




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 7:54 pm
ElTam wrote:
No, you are not wrong. I have a strict no carpooling rule now. Too many bad experiences.


Me too! I've been burned way too many times!!
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Emotional




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 8:01 pm
Barbara wrote:
She could have tried. She did, in a sense. She asked, "you mean every week?" And was met with rejection. "I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool.

Can you imagine that its a cold, rainy day, the OP's DD comes down with the sniffles, and comes home from school before the after-school activity. So now its 4 pm, and OP calls. "Hi, Shana. I won't be able to pick Fruma up today. But I know you have a sitter." "Its 35 degrees outside, and pouring rain. You expect my sitter to take my other 3 kids out in this, and walk 1-1/2 miles each way to school? You promised!"

The answer to that is "No, I didn't promise. I said I would try when possible. Today it doesn't work out for me, sorry."
I really don't know too many people who would respond with a whine like that. I certainly wouldn't, even if deep down I was panicking.
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anon for this




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 8:20 pm
Barbara wrote:
She could have tried. She did, in a sense. She asked, "you mean every week?" And was met with rejection. "I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool.

Can you imagine that its a cold, rainy day, the OP's DD comes down with the sniffles, and comes home from school before the after-school activity. So now its 4 pm, and OP calls. "Hi, Shana. I won't be able to pick Fruma up today. But I know you have a sitter." "Its 35 degrees outside, and pouring rain. You expect my sitter to take my other 3 kids out in this, and walk 1-1/2 miles each way to school? You promised!"


"I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool, but it's a perfectly acceptable parameter for a favor, which is what the OP would be doing. It doesn't sound like the OP's response of "every week?" was met with rejection, but more like Shana picked up on OP's reluctance and didn't take it further. Of course what the OP did was fine, and an understandable response to a rather entitled presumption.

If she would have been willing, she could have said, "I can't commit to driving every week, because my plans sometimes change, but I'd be willing to drive on a 'case-by-case' basis". Then the OP and Shana could figure out a deadline for OP to notify the other parent if she's not willing to drive that week. If OP's child leaves school early or at regular dismissal, OP should let Shana know as soon a possible after making that decision. Then Shana can find another ride, arrange for her babysitter to make another trip, or have the child miss the activity so the babysitter can pick her up at regular dismissal with her sibling.

If Shana doesn't like that idea, or isn't responsible about notifying OP when her child won't be attending activity, or gives an attitude when Shana tells her it won't work on a particular occasion, then of course OP can (and probably should) say, "I won't be able to continue driving Chani home from activity".
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amother


 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 8:35 pm
She should have asked. But she didn't, and you're not going to change the mother, so set aside your annoyance with her lack of social skills and ask yourself if you'd be fine taking this kid home each week. If he's a nice kid and you're pretty sure you'll just be going straight home, then it's a nice chesed to do. But if he's not an easy kid, or you want more flexibility, then say no with a clear conscience, since this is an optional extracurricular.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 9:10 pm
anon for this wrote:
"I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool


This whole thing isn't a car pool. OP doesn't have anyone sharing the costs or the driving. It is a one way obligation.

I resent getting asked if I am interested in carpooling and it is my sole obligation to pick up the kids. I don't mind doing the favor sometimes. I was called by my son's camp once to find out if I was interested in car polling with someone in the neighborhood. I agreed although I had the sole obligation to do the driving. Quite a few times the mother was stuck working late and I got stuck driving her son to the next state. It was ridiculous. I then had to locate her at work in her office building.
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anon for this




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 9:40 pm
Squishy wrote:
anon for this wrote:
"I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool


This whole thing isn't a car pool. OP doesn't have anyone sharing the costs or the driving. It is a one way obligation.


Did you even read the entire sentence you're quoting? What I actually wrote was:

"I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool, but it's a perfectly acceptable parameter for a favor, which is what the OP would be doing.

By quoting half the sentence, you distorted my post and made it sound like I'm disagreeing with you, when I'm actually not.

I think some of the confusion is arising from people using the word "carpool" when they mean "giving my kid(s) a ride". The former confers an obligation to drive other passengers, while the latter does not.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 9:55 pm
anon for this wrote:
Did you even read the entire sentence you're quoting? What I actually wrote was:

"I'll do it when I feel like it" isn't much of a carpool, but it's a perfectly acceptable parameter for a favor, which is what the OP would be doing.

By quoting half the sentence, you distorted my post and made it sound like I'm disagreeing with you, when I'm actually not.

I think some of the confusion is arising from people using the word "carpool" when they mean "giving my kid(s) a ride". The former confers an obligation to drive other passengers, while the latter does not.


I agree we are agreeing. Sorry for any confusion. Carpool is this case is a misnomer. Nothing is pooled in this situation.
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anon for this




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 10:01 pm
Squishy wrote:
I agree we are agreeing. Sorry for any confusion. Carpool is this case is a misnomer. Nothing is pooled in this situation.


Thank you.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Oct 22 2014, 10:05 pm
anon for this wrote:
Thank you.

I am on my cell and if I could have emphasized that part of the sentence, I would have. I think you made a very good point. I never meant to distort your post.
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mdoif




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 12:11 pm
You were certainly not 'wrong' - after all it's your car and life and you don't owe her anything.

As to your guilty feelings, well truth be told we are here for a finite and very limited amount of time, and it is during these few years we have to accumulate all that will sustain us Up There. So perhaps you should overlook your discomfort and justified annoyance at being told instead of asked. This is totally your decision, however - I'm merely pointing out what the end goal is.

What might make it easier for you (my DH did this on many occasions) is to tell her you can do it on a totally non-obligation basis, and she should confirm with you weekly (maybe via text to avoid inconvenience), whether you can do it. In essence you're telling her that while you don't mind doing a chessed (perhaps even enjoy it), you cannot commit yourself.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 12:22 pm
In my experience, when you grant someone a favor, some people (and it sounds like this lady is one of those people), then come to expect and take for granted the favor, and further favors.

My husband drove someone's son to night seder every night for two years. It did not work for my husband to drive the other boy both ways. Only one way worked with his routine. And the mother yelled at him, in public, that he was selfish for not driving her son both ways, "Since he was already driving over there" and demanded to know why he couldn't drive both ways. This is a mother who could have driven, but made the choice not to. And never paid for gas in two years. Stand your ground, OP.
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Emotional




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 3:28 pm
Is there something wrong with me that I can't relate to this? Am I the only one who is HUMBLED and embarrassed when I have to ask for favors? I can't understand the scenarios of percieved entitlement here.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 3:42 pm
Emotional wrote:
Is there something wrong with me that I can't relate to this? Am I the only one who is HUMBLED and embarrassed when I have to ask for favors? I can't understand the scenarios of percieved entitlement here.


Nope, you are normal. And most people I know would never act in such an entitled way.

Good luck with your driving lessons! It took me a few years to get a license so I can relate.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 4:44 pm
Emotional wrote:
Is there something wrong with me that I can't relate to this? Am I the only one who is HUMBLED and embarrassed when I have to ask for favors? I can't understand the scenarios of percieved entitlement here.


No, my experience is that for every demanding crazy person, there are literally dozens of people who are as undemanding as possible, grateful for whatever help you're able to give, and eager to reciprocate in some helpful way.

Of course, as is often pointed out, I live in the Midwest, where a surfeit of corn dust has apparently rendered us exceptionally easygoing.
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 5:08 pm
Emotional wrote:
Is there something wrong with me that I can't relate to this? Am I the only one who is HUMBLED and embarrassed when I have to ask for favors? I can't understand the scenarios of percieved entitlement here.


I'm with you. And I have a driver's licence and no car. I hate asking for rides, although I've gotten scolded in the past for not asking...
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Emotional




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 6:55 pm
Raisin wrote:
Nope, you are normal. And most people I know would never act in such an entitled way.

Good luck with your driving ! It me a few years to get a license so I can relate.

Thank you. And thank you to everyone helps out non-drivers, and thank you to those who don't help out but are nice about it, and to everyone who doesn't either take advantage or be judgemental of other people.

And Barbara, I'm sorry about yesterday. It was never my intent to attack you, I'm sorry you took it that way. I thought this was a place for discussions where differences of opinion are taken for granted, but not taken personally.
May you only have good in your life, and not people who make your life harder.
PS - OP, what did you decide to do?


Last edited by Emotional on Thu, Oct 23 2014, 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mdoif




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 23 2014, 8:32 pm
Quote:
In my experience, when you grant someone a favor, some people (and it sounds like this lady is one of those people), then come to expect and take for granted the favor, and further favors.


I find that too. I also find that people often have this attitude whenever Hashem holds back any of His favors - we sometimes forget He doesn't owe us anything.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Oct 24 2014, 12:41 am
How about the ever popular "can I get a ride with you to that wedding in Monsey?" That also brings up the inevitable dilemma of chessed vs. imposition.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Oct 25 2014, 10:54 pm
I am one of those people who have no choice but to ask/accept the carpool that I cannot participate in. I leave for work too early, and come back too late to take my dd to and from school. Most days the babysitter walks her to school. But a friend brings dd to the afternoon babysitter. Every day. Her son goes there too so she can go to work.

I have thanked her many times and her response is "no problem". She is one of those easy going moms who don't mind helping out. It probably helps that dd is an easy child, and the babysitter is about a block or 2 from the school. So its not really out of her way even if her son wasn't going to the same sitter. At the same time, if she called me up to say she can't do it anymore, I would never get upset with her. I would just thank her for all her help until now. [And then go crazy trying to make other arrangements for DD].
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