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Forum -> Children's Health
Why the fear of vaccinating at 16 if the child is healthy?
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 3:49 pm
It's the end of my day here, but I didn't want to just ditch you without saying goodnight.

As for the ingredients, the anti-vaccers claim that a lot of the ingredients are toxic. They also point out how disgusting the ingredients are, and I can't really believe everyone here is going to disagree with that. Are you just disagreeing to disagree? Bovine and pig stuff. Ew. Vaccines and even antibiotics are made from gross stuff, and I can't imagine anyone trying to refute that. I refuse to. As far as those ingredients being toxic, that's really the question.

Apparently some of the ingredients are problematic for people with allergies, too, yet there is no screening ahead of time to find out whether a baby is allergic or not. Why not?

Bottom line to me, is that there are enough vaccine related deaths and injuries and cover ups that the non-vaccers shouldn't be dismissed so quickly. Are those ingredients potentially toxic, or not? Are babies getting hurt and even killed by them? The answer is yes. How can you dismiss that? Don't you want to know why, and don't you want the vaccine companies or the govt to figure out what's going wrong and fix the problem?
Maybe there needs to be some kind of at risk screening system, or other such solutions. Something needs to be done, not just hushing the anti vaccers.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 4:18 pm
Is anyone dumb enough to use grossness of ingredients as a primary reason not to vaccinate? I hope not.
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yogabird




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 6:54 pm
catonmylap wrote:
Since I shouldn't say anything in the natural parenting safe haven, can someone explain why the big anti-vax for an older child?

I understand the fear of autism (whether its justified or not, is something else) but there is reason people are afraid... but what's the fear with an older healthy child?

They don't actually believe they'll get the disease from the vaccine, do they??

Can you explain to me why the fear of an unvaccinated teen? If she's healthy, she probably has a mature immune system that can ward off most infections. It's not like she's a walking, talking germ machine. Heck, she doesn't even pick her nose, hopefully.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 7:29 pm
amother wrote:
The point of injecting the vaccine is that the body should mount a defense. The body doesn't inly mount a defense against the pathogen it could also fight off other components in the vaccine so if formaldehyde is so similar to the formaldehyde in the body the body could essentially mount a defense against a mechanism within the body which is essentially an autoimmune disorder. That's the problem with formaldehyde.
Not to mention the formaldehyde they're injecting is a synthetic version similar to the formaldehyde in the body so it's disingenuous to say it's healthy and just like the organic formaldehyde that the body creates.


Do you do research and have evidence of your theory of vaccine induced anti formaldehyde antibody formation? (Please don't quote me anything about such antibodies in dialysis patients, it is a whole different form of exposure and clinical issue).

I also need you to explain how the molecular structure of synthetic formaldehyde differs from vegetable, animal and human derived formaldehyde, and how this affects the function. It must be easy for you to find this evidence, (although it may have slipped my mind, it is a while since I did organic chemistry), if it is so disingenuous to suggest the same chemical produced by different methods has the same structure and function.

Please, show us the clinical papers discussing anti formaldehyde antibody titre in humans outside the rare dialysis issues, and the relevant clinical signs and symptoms associated with this syndrome. Because it isn't an auto immune disease I'm familiar with. I am only too happy to develop my knowledge of what must be a common and frequently encountered clinical diagnosis.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 7:43 pm
yogabird wrote:
Can you explain to me why the fear of an unvaccinated teen? If she's healthy, she probably has a mature immune system that can ward off most infections. It's not like she's a walking, talking germ machine. Heck, she doesn't even pick her nose, hopefully.


Vaccines were developed with healthy people in mind...
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yogabird




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 8:27 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
Vaccines were developed with healthy people in mind...

Not sure I get your point.

This culture of fear that the medical establishment has created with regard to what were a few decades ago routine childhood illness is appropriate for the immuno-compromised population, not healthy individuals with functioning immune systems.
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mommy27




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 10:15 pm
they may have been routine childhood illnesses but...

mumps- can cause male infertility. sorry ds, can't get married...

rubella- catch it while pregnant, baby can be deaf or worse

measles- can be deadly

pertusis- can kill babies

The list can go on and on. Personally, I'm glad they're not routine anymore.
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eschaya




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 10:42 pm
For all that is said about the risks of vaccines (and I will not deny that there are), are the anti-vaxers also fully aware of the extent, morbidity, and mortality of the diseases for which we vaccinate? Do you know what the diseases look like in a child? Part of the reason we are even having this controversy nowadays is because we have become complacent. We don't live with the fear of these diseases that used to kill many thousands of kids.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 30 2014, 10:44 pm
yogabird wrote:
Not sure I get your point.

This culture of fear that the medical establishment has created with regard to what were a few decades ago routine childhood illness is appropriate for the immuno-compromised population, not healthy individuals with functioning immune systems.


Let's take one of these simple diseases everyone got. In the decade before the measles vaccination program began, an estimated 3–4 million people in the United States were infected each year, of whom 400–500 died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and another 1,000 developed chronic disability from measles encephalitis.

Not to mention polio. Or smallpox.

But gee, it's just the medical establishment scaring us.

How would you feel if children whose parents refused to vaccinate were required to be exposed to the diseases? Would you be willing to deliberately infect each of your children with polio? Not inoculate, infect. So that they become ill, and develop natural immunity. After all, it's nothing but a silly little illness. It's those big bad doctors who make it sound so bad. If not, why not?

And if you agree to polio, what about smallpox?

Ebola? Because there will be a vaccine.
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groovy1224




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 12:41 am
chani8 wrote:
As for the ingredients, the anti-vaccers claim that a lot of the ingredients are toxic. They also point out how disgusting the ingredients are, and I can't really believe everyone here is going to disagree with that. Are you just disagreeing to disagree? Bovine and pig stuff. Ew. Vaccines and even antibiotics are made from gross stuff, and I can't imagine anyone trying to refute that. I refuse to. As far as those ingredients being toxic, that's really the question.


It's always amusing to me when people look up the ingredients list for a vaccine and are shocked to find out it's not 2 cups of whole wheat flour, a dash of olive oil, and some mint leaves. Complex ingredients go into vaccines. Preservatives, too.Whether or not I can pronounce them, or whether or not I find them icky is strangely enough not something the CDC cares about.
That's not to mention that people's definition of 'toxic' gets very shady here. Aluminum is toxic in high quantities. But if you've ever wrapped something in aluminum foil, and then reheated it, and then breastfed your baby, you officially just introduced aluminum into that baby's system. All of a sudden it's not so toxic. Just when the big bad mean CDC uses it.

chani8 wrote:
Apparently some of the ingredients are problematic for people with allergies, too, yet there is no screening ahead of time to find out whether a baby is allergic or not. Why not?


Because as long as your baby's human, he's allergic to the measles. And polio. And the mumps, too. No testing required.

chani8 wrote:
Bottom line to me, is that there are enough vaccine related deaths and injuries and cover ups that the non-vaccers shouldn't be dismissed so quickly.


I also really enjoy the cover up angle. It's like asking your kid- "Did you eat the last cookie?" And then when he says "no," you say, "AHA! That's exactly what someone who ate it would say!!" Well, it's also what someone who didn't eat it would say! So for example, that poor girl who died from the benadryl reaction; one amother used the fact that the ME determined the benadryl to be the cause of death to be proof that he was lying!! Because he didn't support your theory, he must be lying?? If that's all it takes to reveal a cover up, then I'm seeing them all the time!

chani8 wrote:
Are those ingredients potentially toxic, or not? Are babies getting hurt and even killed by them? The answer is yes. How can you dismiss that? Don't you want to know why, and don't you want the vaccine companies or the govt to figure out what's going wrong and fix the problem?
Maybe there needs to be some kind of at risk screening system, or other such solutions. Something needs to be done, not just hushing the anti vaccers.


All vaccine related deaths or injuries are reported to the maker of the vaccine, to be investigated. Oh, and really? A risk screening system? Are you under the impression that someone comes up with a vaccine, they whip up a batch, and then start distributing it? Vaccines go through a long process of testing. Believe it or not, you're not the first one with that idea.
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 12:42 am
yogabird wrote:
Not sure I get your point.

This culture of fear that the medical establishment has created with regard to what were a few decades ago routine childhood illness is appropriate for the immuno-compromised population, not healthy individuals with functioning immune systems.


And the percentage then vs. now of children who died in infancy/early childhood?
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The Happy Wife




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 12:52 am
amother wrote:
crunchy mom here...
hmmm... I wonder why he had a reaction... I wonder what it was...
hmmm... I wonder what the dr. said after seeing the reaction.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Why did he have a reaction? Don't know. But people also have reactions to strawberries, to pancakes, to almost anything.
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ange




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 12:52 pm
To the original q, teens and adults can have adverse reactionsto vaccines as well. Autoimmune disorders can be triggered, etc. look up gardasil girls website. Healthy teen girls had their lives destroyed by gardasil, yet it's still being denied that it can be dangerous. There are also many cases of flu vaccine causing great harm, etc.

Good luck.
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Scrabble123




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 01 2014, 9:38 pm
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 02 2014, 4:37 am
yogabird wrote:
Not sure I get your point.

This culture of fear that the medical establishment has created with regard to what were a few decades ago routine childhood illness is appropriate for the immuno-compromised population, not healthy individuals with functioning immune systems.


A few decades ago we still had wards full of patients on lifelong respirators from polio, children missing years of school while recovering from polio related paralysis, miscarriages and babies born with congenital rubella, lungs scarred from measles, and the treatment for a heart attack was 2 weeks strict bedrest and pray.

We have moved on in prolonging and improving quality of life and health.


Chronic hepatitis B carries a significant risk of liver failure and cancer, there are no absolute cures, and it is a horrible death, but entirely preventable, if you wish. Unlike people in Pakistan, who often only get diagnosed when they are dying of liver failure in their 40s.

People still die of TB every day, even in the US. Fewer and fewer children die of meningitis, or meningococcal septicaemia, because of vaccinations. Diseases such as epiglottitis, where a baby's throat swells up from infection and they choke to death, are now virtually confined to the history books because of the HiB vacination. Meningitis C is rarer and rarer, due to the vaccinations. The pneumococcal and flu jabs prevent hundreds of people with lung diseases from dying each winter, in what way is this not what Hashem wants? Surely preserving life is one of our basic responsibilities as frum Jews, enabling us to do one more mitzva, even if we do have emphysema? No linger is pneumonia known as "the old man's friend", for its typical end result of terminating life in the elderly as they drift off into respiratory failure.

Measles is the biggest killer in emergency disaster camps such as those that Syrian refugees are living in, the first thing that is done on arrival of relief workers, before clean water, is immunise against measles, as it is responsible for so many deaths in such situations. We are fortunate to be in receipt of heathcare and economic circumstances that negate the severity and potential deaths of such infectious diseases, and enable us to make crunchy choices.

But meanwhile, aggressive treatment and survival of more and more cancers, immune disorders and diseases such as HIV mean that there are more and more people walking around with compromised immune systems, relying on the low prevalence of infections that might kill them, a situation created by the widespread vaccination programs.

Make whatever choices you wish, but in no way do vaccines get developed unless there is a market for them, and a market means that disease carries significant risk of killing or causing long term harm to many people in a rich nation.

The ebola vaccine that was being developed 10 years ago, was halted and research stopped because it only occured in small, self terminating outbreaks in resource poor countries, so was never going to make a profit. Unless a vaccine will make a difference to survival or long term health, no one will fund it. The point being that yes, the vaccinations that exist have actual health benefits to a nation.

Would you prefer to re introduce polio, meningitis B and C, or rubella into New York, or is it easier to dismiss the real health benefits that our generation are just too protected from to even be grateful that we are spared such childhood horrors?
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