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Black and white?



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amother


 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 2:00 am
Someone told me that the Torah and Yidishkeit and black and white. then she tried to explain to me that she is open minded. She also said that she is more "right" than a person not dressed as tzniusdig than her, but also that she doesn't judge.
I'm not trying to insult her at all. We probably didn't understand one another.
I am so confused here. The only black and white in the Torah is Avodah Zarah, Gilui Arayos, and Shfichas Damim, everything else has a gray. Let's take killing for example. You're not allowed to kill, but if someone breaks into your house, you may kill him. If you see someone raping someone else, you may kill him. A be din may sentence someone to death under certain circumstances. This is not black and white. Nothing is black and white. I am so confused because on one hand she was saying "she is not ignorant" and trying to show she is accepting of others, yet saying things like "it's more frum to do this or that blah blah."
It's possible we just really misunderstood one another, which I guess is the case, but I'm just need to know: are there really many people who view things as black/white?
If that lady happens to be on imamother I guess she could explain what she was trying to say!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 2:55 am
*grabs 10 foot pole*

*backs away slowly*

This will not end well. shock
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 3:07 am
What does 'more frum' even mean? It's just a box. It is black and white because you either fit in the box, or you don't. She has her idea of what the box should look like, and if you don't fit in it, she doesn't judge you in a bad way, she just wont put you in that box.

As far as the rules being black and white, in her box, she thinks they are. She follows a certain derech of psakim, and thinks that's the true torah way. Anyone who doesn't follow that derech, doesn't fit in the box.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 4:57 am
amother wrote:
The only black and white in the Torah is Avodah Zarah, Gilui Arayos, and Shfichas Damim, everything else has a gray. Let's take killing for example. You're not allowed to kill, but if someone breaks into your house, you may kill him. If you see someone raping someone else, you may kill him. A be din may sentence someone to death under certain circumstances. This is not black and white. Nothing is black and white.

Shificas Damim is black and white but killing is not? Or is nothing black and white?
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chickpea_salad




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 4:57 am
I love my mezuzah. It is beautiful, it reminds me of the presence of Hashem, and it is on an angle because there were varying opinions on how to best fulfill the mitzvah.
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yo'ma




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 5:58 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't hashems commandments black and white sprinkled with a lot of rachamim and minhagim/commandments from our rabanim grey?
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 10:24 am
There are Mitzvos that are black and white- for example, you may only eat animals that chew their cuds and have split hooves, and fish that have fins and scales. Killing is pretty black and white- you may not kill unless someone is endagering others. Even if someone kills by accident, they determine if the person has to go to an Ir Miklat with very precise details- was it with an upward movement or downward movement? While climbing up a ladder of climbing down the ladder?

Then there are Mitzvos that are very gray, like Tznius- Everyone has different opinions on that one. That's what Rabanim have to help us clarify.

Anyone who says the whole Torah is black and white is either not thinking or not open minded.
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4everonadiet




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 10:39 am
Seems to me she's confused herself.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 10:42 am
In Judaism, even the grey is meant to be black and white.

Before you throw tomatoes, hear me out.

Like OP said, there are rules, and then there are times that the rules may be "broken", but breaking the rules must follow another set of rules. We are commanded עשה לך רב, so that we can have guidance about how to "break the rules". Judaism doesn't allow for subjective morality. Everything must be done within the confines of the Torah. But the Torah isn't rigid. It's the blueprint of the world, and makes space for every eventuality and guides us in how to deal with the nuances of life.

Some people have difficulty addressing nuance, they want everything to be the same with a blanket answer for everything. That's "the box" referred to by previous posters. That's people, not Torah. If you ever learned גמרא you will see that the Torah is all about nuance. But there are specific guidelines to dealing with each nuance. That's the vastness of the Torah.

As far as one derech being more "right" than the other, that's a man made phenomenon. שבעים פנים לתורה. As long as a person is following a מורה הלכה, they are inside the box. People who shrink the box to only contain their derech may be more right wing, but they're not more right.
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fmt4




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 31 2014, 10:48 am
Op, do you realize that shefichat damim means "killing?"?
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