This American Life episode about Hasidic takeover of Ramapo

wispalover

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 8:46 pm

Squishy wrote:

From the national review October 2013

"With little fanfare, the federal government has posted its annual compilation of birth data, including out-of-wedlock births. Here’s the bad news (essentially unchanged from last year): Preliminary data indicate that 40.7 percent of all 2012 births were out-of-wedlock, which is appalling, and there are vast differences among racial and ethnic groups. Among non-Hispanic blacks, the figure is highest, at 72.2 percent; for American Indians/Alaska Natives, it’s 66.9 percent; 53.5 percent for Hispanics; 29.4 percent for non-Hispanic whites; and a mere 17.1 percent for Asians/Pacific Islanders.

As I noted last year, it is, of course, no surprise that the groups with the highest illegitimacy rates are the groups that are struggling economically, educationally, with crime, and so forth."

My community has zero percent out of wedlock births.

Im sure they don't. Did you also do extensive research into if your community teens get abortions to prevent out of wedlock births? I have no clue if they do or do not, but just because there are no births does not mean zex isnt happening.

33055

Wed, Nov 05 2014, 9:05 pm

wispalover wrote:

Most of these girls are virgins until their wedding night and sometimes beyond. The genders are kept separate and both groups are watched. They also keep the boys and girls loaded with work. AFAIK when someone does cross the lines, they get married or boy gets shipped to EY. My friend just married off her 17 year old because she met a boy in her sil's apartment. I am sure teenage hormones also rage in frum teens. I know of 2 boys who were sent to EY and two other couples who made their own shidduch. Sorry no extensive research on frum abortions.

DrMom

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 2:26 am

Squishy wrote:

It is an interesting idea to bus them somewhere else. The problem is no one would want these students. There would be the same issues as Yonkers faced. These students are more expensive to educate because of ESL and the lack of support at home. The other problem is these students have social issues. To be blunt they have behavior issues. They don't have the same values as the surrounding areas. To have a good school district you need proper schools but the student population is also important.

I'm confused. You think that these kids wouldn't integrate socially into neighboring schools because these kids have premarital sx and the kids in the other schools do not? That seems far-fetched...

I do agree that bussing kids from low-income, poverty-stricken areas in to wealthier areas is not the simplest social transition, and can cause lots of friction. I also agree that it will be difficult to integrate socially if there are severe language barriers. I think ESL is well-meaning, but in the long run the goal should be English fluency, not "sheltered ESL" versions of every academic subject under the sun.

I assume the ESL/sheltered classes are state-mandated requirements, so I don't think the school board can influence this (and I am doubtful they care about it one way or another, except for the budgetary impact).

Frumdoc

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 4:45 am

Squishy wrote:

So the community with high illegitimacy rates (and nowhere does that break down to immigrants v non immigrants, which was my point, don't deserve decent high schools because they will drop out anyway?

Is that your point?

Cut the budget, none of them will bother to graduate, they will all just go out and have a hundred babies and don't need an education to live off welfare.

Sounds like another group I know.

33055

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 7:40 am

DrMom wrote:

One district can not effectively absorb all the illegal immigrants flocking that that district because of friendly policies to the illegal immigrants which serve as a magnet. There is a reason for the flood of illegal immigrants here. Rather than make Spring Valley like most other unfriendly places have some other government entity share the financial burden.

As Barbara said I was just giving an example of different values of different groups. I don't think premarital zex effects the brain as has been suggested. I think as you acknowledge busing is a difficult transition. When I pass by Spring Valley High School daily, I see minority students. Because of this thread, yesterday when passing by, I counted 80 students and there was not one white face. [It is a gigantic piece of property and you must pass at 15mph which is strictly enforced.] Since you can't force the white students to go to public schools, the only way to integrate would be to bus to local districts.

happybeingamom

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 8:18 am

Is there a high population of illegals in the area because they are being hired for jobs in this community? If a community wants the benefit of the cheap labor of illegals then they have to accept the fact that they are going to pay for the education, infrastructure and health costs of the illegal population.

As long as illegals are hired for jobs then they are going to come into this country. The blame of illegal immigration in my opinion rests on people who hire them.

If there were no jobs they would not come to live in the area.

33055

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 8:25 am

Frumdoc wrote:

Cut the budget, none of them will bother to graduate, they will all just go out and have a hundred babies and don't need an education to live off welfare.

I never said "Cut the budget, none of them will bother to graduate, they will all just go out and have a hundred babies and don't need an education to live off welfare."

That is big leap from my message of fiscal responsibility and the need to share the tax burden by larger government entities.

I also said that it is too bad that it is politically incorrect that we can't have settlement houses and the like to enable immigrants to adopt to the larger culture. Parts of Spring Valley look like a refugee camp with people living in abject poverty. One town can not solve all these problems created by the overcrowding illegal of immigrants. Some students will study at the public library, but where are the rest going to do their homework?

The district provide free after school programing and summer programing. They have professional dedicated teachers with continued training for the staff.

The children model their parents. The schools can only do so much when Dad is hanging out on the street corners drinking from a paper bag because he did not work that day. When dad does have a job, he goes to the bodega on the way home and starts drinking. Of course this is not all and only a generalization based on what the Spanish workers tell me and what I observe. This is not the typical secular behavior of the larger suburban society.

I have already said twice before on this thread and numerous times elsewhere on this site that my community has similar attitudes as those in the inner city. One community leader told me that I didn't need to be so concerned with my daughter's education because all she had to know was how to open an umbrella when it rains because she will be a wife and mother.

The Cristian Churches are stepping into the breach created by the high drop out rate. They are giving the illegal immigrants in Spring Valley a chance to get their GED. They have schools in Newark and Spring Valley which they must attend twice a week. They are indoctrinating them in church values also. The students promise to tithe 10% of their income.

33055

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 8:36 am

happybeingamom wrote:

This area is particularly friendly to illegals to reside here. The workers are not just hired by the local community although they take advantage of the cheap labor pool. I mean they really take advantage. Many men will not work for frum yidden anymore as day laborers because certain ones don't pay them. What can the illegal immigrant do?

Many people from nearby counties and drive into Spring Valley to pick up cheap labor. I know people who drive up to an hour away. I know of illegal immigrants who work on projects much further away.

happybeingamom

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 8:44 am

Squishy wrote:

Then as a community you need to elect politicians to enforce labor laws. It is illegal to hire someone who does not have the correct papers. I know this is not really enforced in most places in this country but that is the only way to handle the situation. It should not be profitable to hire illegal immigrants. It will be difficult to do because this country relies on this cheap labor and getting rid of it will cause problems.

I find it interesting though that the illegals are always being bashed but the people who hire them reputations stay squeaky clean. Nice double standard?

Last edited by happybeingamom on Thu, Nov 06 2014, 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total

DrMom

Thu, Nov 06 2014, 8:52 am

happybeingamom wrote:

Of course, if the same voting blocs who elect the school board also run for office, and if they benefit from exploiting illegal immigrants, there is little chance of enforcement.

Last edited by DrMom on Thu, Nov 06 2014, 9:26 am; edited 2 times in total