Things that shouldn't be discussed

Ema of 5

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 9:58 am

I was reading the thread about things that weren't discussed enforce marriage and it got me thinking. If you can't discuss something with the person you are dating, what changes wen you get married? But how can you marry someone who you can't talk to? These things that should be discussed but aren't....for example....when/how you want to cover your hair, what size family you want to have, how long you want your husband to learn or if you even want him to learn at all....I'm sure there are plentt more, but this was all I could think of off hand. So how can you marry someone without knowing that you feel the same way about certain things? Big things? It's one thing if, as in my case, circumstances and thinking change. But to not even discuss it? That only leads to unhappiness down the road, which clearly could have been avoided.

amother

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 10:08 am

I definitely did discuss with my husband (while we were dating) if he wanted to learn and how long he wanted to learn for! That was a huge conversation that we had on our 4th or 5th date (that's the date that you usually talk 'tachlis'). It was very important that we be on the same page. We also discussed if we want a tv, types of magazines etc.
We didn't discuss covering my hair because I think it was obvious that I would cover fully, based on my upbringing and the hashkafos that I had. But I always encourage girls who are dating to make sure they discuss everything to prevent issues later on...

saw50st8

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 10:40 am

eema of 3 wrote:

It was really important for DH that I cover my hair after we get married. I agreed to try, even though the women in my family don't cover their hair going back as far as we have pictures. After a week, my headaches were awful, I could barely see straight and DH agreed that I didn't have to stick to our "agreement" - even things that are discussed become fluid.

Ema of 5

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:01 am

saw50st8 wrote:

That's what I said. It's one thing if circumstances change, as was your case. You tried it and it really didn't work. But I'm sure when you made the decision to stop covering you spoke to your husband about it. What I dot get is not even discussing big things. Family size is huuuuuge. Hair covering is reeeeeally important. So are so many other things. How can they not be discussed beforehand?

Lady Godiva

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:09 am

Your average guy and girl do discuss these things. Even a yeshivish friend of mine told me that she discussed how many kids they want. She wanted many; he wanted a few. Over a decade later now they b"h have many. LOL

allthingsblue

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:11 am

I don't thing that is the norm (the thread you are referring to). The op in that case purposely didn't talk about it, because she didn't want to scare away her future-husband by revealing the truth, which she knew was not so accepted in her circles. It's not that she couldn't talk about it, it's that she didn't want to. IT seems like she wanted to get married first, and then reveal her "secret," when it was too late for her husband to back out.

sky

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:22 am

In yeshivish dating many of these details are known before the couple goes out - learning, hair covering, hashkafa, tv, etc.

We did discuss most of these topics on our date anyways. We didn't discuss family size. I thought then and I still think now it is a topic that evolves so much there really isn't a point to discuss.

[I grew up near a couple who had discussed while dating that she wanted 99 children and he wanted 3. Their 3rd and 4th were twins. he said he gave up at that point and they went on to have children in the double digits. So I guess that molded my thoughts on the matter. ]

m in Israel

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 11:34 am

allthingsblue wrote:

I agree with this. It was more than that -- she herself said that her husband actually brought up the topic while they were dating, but she felt she had no choice but to give the "right" answer because she was afraid to miss out on a "good shidduch". Confused

She said something like "what else was I supposed to say? That I only want 4?" and something to the effect of "what good BY girl would say that on a date".

So the problem didn't seem to be that the topic wasn't discussed, but that when it was discussed she was intentionally misleading for whatever reason. That is a very different thing.

amother

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:18 pm

I remember when one of my siblings was in shidduchim, she was suggested to a certain boy who inquired about her if she was the type of girl who would have as many kids as Hashem gave her and would never use BC, period, as this was what he was looking for.

My parents said no to the shidduch. (they were pretty shocked at the question).

My family is right wing Heimish, and she wants to have a large family. But would not consider a shidduch with someone that inflexible.

amother

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:35 pm

Quote:

And that would be, what? Under any and all circumstances? Clotting disorder? PPD? Hyperemesis? Stam not coping?

I have been redt shidduchim for my kids where the family has, let's say, 16 kids. If anyone here has 16 kids, please don't take offense.

But to me it's just a different type of culture and belief system, albeit purportedly within Orthodox Judaism. Because I have trouble wrapping my head around a woman who can happily and healthily raise 16 kids. (Probably that's a chisaron in me.) So it sounds to me like people who don't respect a woman's right to be a healthy, happy person, preferring that she see her role in life as a baby-producing machine.

Which maybe should be a separate thread, but PP got me going here.

Ema of 5

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:43 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

So instead of discussing it at the outset, she is now stuck in a situation that never should have arisen in the first place! How can you (anyone) go into a marriage knowing that you feel differently about something major and not discuss it? That's what I don't get.

Ema of 5

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:48 pm

m in Israel wrote:

Therein lies my issue. She purposely lied to him and now he is unhappy. Again, that's what I don't get. How can there be a right or wrong answer to how man children one wants? As someone else said, it evolves. But I'm not talking about this specifically. I'm talking about ANYTHING which will impact your marriage. Marriage is all about communication, so how can you start off by NOT communicating?

busymom

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:56 pm

amother wrote:

I find it hard to believe that any unmarried man - whether 18 or 28 - even understands what that means. He was just repeating a line that was fed to him. When normal men see how pregnancies affect their wife, whether physically or emotionally, and what it takes to raise healthy, happy children, I'm sure many develop an opinion of their own and realize that different situations call for different things. This young man didn't have a real opinion. He was just echoing what he had been told.

chickpea_salad

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 12:58 pm

When you are young and insecure you:
a) don't know yourself that well, really
b) have a hard time expressing your views with confidence
c) fear rejection above all else
D) all of the above.

I nervously skirted a few things when dating (so did DH!) and those were part of the "wrinkles" we had to iron out as newly-weds.

As my grama said...A half truth is a whole lie.

amother

Wed, Nov 12 2014, 2:07 pm

busymom wrote:

It's possible that he was repeating a line fed to him. The question was asked by a family member who was inquiring about her on his behalf.

From our end, sibling would not get into that kind of situation, whether he understands it or not.

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 13 2014, 6:07 am

This boy should be advised to word it differently. He could at least say "but health first", or something. Or that he hopes G-d sends him a very large family, and leave it at that, this makes it clear he is not into 1 one of each and done LOL.

I remember a shidduch ad that was saying he will take what G-d sends, 16 in a small Mea shearim apartment or 5 in a palace- this was pretty good I think, while still showing he definitely wants large he realizes he's not in control...

That said sometimes it's the woman who refuses the birth control. I have some docs who talk too much and I've heard some stories.