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Spinoff- IF, what should you say?
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2gether




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:08 pm
What should or could be said to friends going through IF ?alternatively what not to say.

obviously, I'm looking for posts from imamothers who are going through or have gone through IF.
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rising hero




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:24 pm
"Hi, how are you? Pretty sweater, looks really good on you!" Or "So cold today. Do you hate this weather as much as I do?"
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:28 pm
Don't say anything. Ever. If they say something to you about their IF, be sympathetic but never offer advice unless you personally (not your sister or your cousin or your best friend's aunt) have been there and have something constructive to say.
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2gether




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:29 pm
Madam F. wrote:
"Hi, how are you? Pretty sweater, looks really good on you!" Or "So cold today. Do you hate this weather as much as I do?"


sorry, I know you should just talk normal...my question was a drop deeper.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:30 pm
Should I not talk about my kids?
Tell s/o w/ IF about a birth?
Complain about kids?
These are normal things but I want to be sensitive not rude
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:38 pm
Talk about your kids, don't go overboard. Absolutely tell your friends about a birth (assuming you're talking about yours or a close mutual friend) - not telling them about births or pregnancies can be just as hurtful - if not more - than telling them.

Don't complain about your kids.
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:39 pm
There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question. Everyone going through IF is different and has different sensitivity levels. Even the same person will be sensitive to different things based on what is going on in her life at the moment.

A general rule of thumb is that it's best to announce a pregnancy/birth over the phone or email so your friend doesn't feel left out but doesn't have to put on a show of being thrilled for you if she's not up to it. Please don't be insulted if your exciting news seems to fall flat - you never know if someone just had a failed cycle or miscarriage.

It's also best to take the lead from your friend. If she asks you about your children, then by all means answer the question. Just don't go on and on and on. If your friend changes the subject, then it's time to find something else to talk about.
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:42 pm
The fact that you're asking is a pretty good indicator that you'll be more sensitive by default!
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 12:55 pm
I've been on both sides of this equation. I was childless for the first five years of marriage, experienced secondary IF, and then had a whole litter of four in two calendar years (after I took a single cycle of Clomid -- my OB said he would have just waved the prescription in front of me had he known what was to come!).

This all occurred in the late 80s through the mid-90s, when fertility treatments were far less sophisticated, it wasn't as big a business, and not everyone was expected to be sporting a tummy by the end of sheva brochos. In retrospect, I consider that something of a blessing, since I wasn't crazed with worry -- everything was much more low-key.

That said, I still remember some painful moments:

* The shaitel macher who asked me how many children I had, and when I said, "None," proceeded to give me a hairstyle like an 18-year-old.

* The rebbetzin who, upon making my acquaintance, asked all kinds of probing questions about my medical history, ultimately decreeing that I'd damaged my fertility by taking acetaminophen for sinus headaches as a teenager.

* The women who would immediately stop talking about their children the minute I joined the group, looking guiltily at their feet as if I'd caught them doing something shameful.

The real answer is that relationships are not based on how many children anyone has. People without children as well as people with 20 children enjoy friends who are interested in a variety of topics and can share thoughts and observations on all kinds of things. In short, if you are talking about your kids so much that someone with IF will be bothered, then you are talking about your kids too much.

Also, remember that childlessness isn't an identity. It's a circumstance that may or may not change, and it's only a small segment of a person's life. I've known several women who married in their early 20s, spent up to a decade without children, and then had as many as 7 or 8 kids during their 30s. It's not a race; it's not a contest.

Daven for your friend, but skip the pity -- Hashem can change everything in a second.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 1:04 pm
These are all things that were said to me. People think they are compliments but really they are just stabs at the heart of someone going through IF - so better not to say anything at all. Talk about other things, there is so much in life to talk about. Learn something hashkafa together, etc. Anything but this:

P.S. ** You may know someone who has not had kids and they have been married a couple years. You may even assume they are just 'waiting' for a better time to have kids. She may even drop fake hints to make you THINK she is waiting out on having kids. NEWSFLASH: A LOT of times that's just a facade and she's trying to make it seem as if they are waiting and are really struggling with (INFERTILITY)IF OR SECONDARY IF (have other kid/s but havent had kids in a few years afterwards). So in all these instances keep quiet, it'll prevent a lot of heartache.

These are all things ppl have said to me when I was struggling with secondary IF:

Do NOT complain about your kids in front of someone suffering with IF or who has been married a while and has no kids.
DO NOT say things like, " you're so lucky you can sleep through the night.."
DO NOT say things like, "you're so lucky you are still skinny, I'm so fat after having 3 kids"
Do NOT say things like "you're so lucky you and your husband get so much alone time"
DO NOT go on and on in front of him/her about your horror birth stories.
Do NOT plan a lunch date with her and a few friends and all get off on an hour escapade about your kids poopy diapers, feeding schedules, and how hard it is to nurse.
Do NOT ask her why she is 'waiting'
Do NOT tell her "you're so smart for waiting to have kids"
Do NOT say something like "You're the only one in the family know who hasn't had kids yet, who else would I ask to be kvater besides you"

I'm sure I could think of more but that's it for now.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 1:08 pm
Iymnok wrote:
Should I not talk about my kids?
Tell s/o w/ IF about a birth?
Complain about kids?
These are normal things but I want to be sensitive not rude

You can talk about your kids - to an extent. If that's all you talk about, chances are I'll limit my friendship,.,
Yes, absolutely do tell about a birth/pregnancy. As another posted suggested, do it by text/email (phone). I would want to hear it stated as a fact of life, not too excited "omg! This is awesome! We were trying for three months already...!!" And not "ugh, I'm so mad! It's the worst thing that's happened!"

No. Please don't complain about your kids. You can talk about them. Not complain. That's not to say you can't vent ever - but not to someone with IF.

I feel the line between sensitive and rude, is between talking about facts of life as opposed to venting about those blessings (to IF'ers)
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 1:15 pm
Quote:
Do NOT ask her why she is 'waiting'
Do NOT tell her "you're so smart for waiting to have kids"


Yup. The worst for me, was people thinking I did it on purpose, EVEN IF TO PRAISE.
I once went along, like "oh I have time", then I felt so bad, my mom told me next time blast her, don't just nod along. I've never taken a pill in my life, even when I had that 4 yr gap. Thankyouverymuch.

Maybe the worst phrasing was the one made to "tempt me into having babies": "don't you want a little baby in your arms"?. I HAVE to think this person meant well (or is mentally sick), or I would wish ill upon her. Btw I learned SHE was on birth control long term and couldn't envision having more, so yeah talk for yourself lady.


Quote:
Do NOT say something like "You're the only one in the family know who hasn't had kids yet, who else would I ask to be kvater besides you"

Oh that one, so sick
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 1:22 pm
amother wrote:
You can talk about your kids - to an extent. If that's all you talk about, chances are I'll limit my friendship.


Me, too! And so will my friend who has 12 kids. People who are only interested in one subject may or may not be insensitive, but they're always boring!
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allthingsblue




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 1:38 pm
I was recently in a nail salon, and I met an acquaintance who is married and does not have children (she is in her 40s and has been married a very long time, and has been trying).
Also at the salon were two other women who did not know either of us, and they were talking on top of their lungs about their births (C-section, which was hardest, their scars etc etc). I was hoping they would stop, but they went on and on about the nitty gritty.
I felt so bad for this childless woman!!!
These other women had no idea what they were doing, but someone was terribly hurt inadvertently.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 2:25 pm
Do you want or hate to be asked to do kvatter?

If a friend is having major life stress with one of her kids that occupies all of her mindspace- a mentally ill or developmentally disabled or seriously ill child or the like- should she should steer clear of you and gain her support elsewhere, or can she come to you?
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amother


 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 2:37 pm
animeme wrote:
Do you want or hate to be asked to do kvatter?

If a friend is having major life stress with one of her kids that occupies all of her mindspace- a mentally ill or developmentally disabled or seriously ill child or the like- should she should steer clear of you and gain her support elsewhere, or can she come to you?


No I don't want to be asked to do kvatter. It's a public show of my IF. Besides, I don't know who ever decided that kvatter should be given to us. It's an honor - give it to someone you want to honor.

Your example - it's different than complaining about regular child related stuff. It also depends how close you are. I wouldn't want my friend to steer clear of me when she's going through a hard time (unless that hard time means getting pregnant "again!", don't steer clear, but don't vent to me either).
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 2:46 pm
animeme wrote:
Do you want or hate to be asked to do kvatter?



I would rather not be asked. You know, half the time I've been asked I wouldn't be able to do it anyway, and would rather not disclose my personal status. And no, I'm not interested in making an even bigger spectacle of myself by having a go-between.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 2:47 pm
I know some run after the opportunity.
I also know some dread being asked.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 2:50 pm
amother wrote:


Do NOT complain about your kids in front of someone suffering with IF or who has been married a while and has no kids.
DO NOT say things like, " you're so lucky you can sleep through the night.."
DO NOT say things like, "you're so lucky you are still skinny, I'm so fat after having 3 kids"
Do NOT say things like "you're so lucky you and your husband get so much alone time"
DO NOT go on and on in front of him/her about your horror birth stories.
Do NOT plan a lunch date with her and a few friends and all get off on an hour escapade about your kids poopy diapers, feeding schedules, and how hard it is to nurse.
Do NOT ask her why she is 'waiting'
Do NOT tell her "you're so smart for waiting to have kids"
Do NOT say something like "You're the only one in the family know who hasn't had kids yet, who else would I ask to be kvater besides you"


Do not say "Don't you want to have more kids"
Do not say "Where are the rest of your kids"
Do not say "Who is watching your baby" unless you know for sure that they have one. Do not insist that they for sure have a baby, you positively heard that they have one.
Do not say "You are lucky to have an easier life"
Do not say "you are lucky to have more time for yourself."
Do not say "your finances must be easier"
Do not say that they can handle whatever is going on in the extended family since everyone else is busy with their kids and they have the most time/resources/space etc...
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amother


 

Post Thu, Nov 20 2014, 3:54 pm
When I was asked to be kvatter I was filled with tremendous gratitude and it felt so great to know that someone was thinking and cared about me......
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