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amother
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 Fri, Nov 21 2014, 3:45 am
I live in Israel. I probably would not have gone to Y-M right now if I didnt live here.
I feel that you are not supposed to put yourself in a place of risk unless you really have to. Whether a wedding is "really have to" or not- is already up to you.
Yes, Im scared. I said it.
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Sanguine
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 3:46 am
"Im Eshkachech Yerushalayim Tishkach Yemini"
OP - You can be nervous. Everyone is nervous facing new situations. But you should know we don't take life lightly here in Israel. Everything is being done to protect the citizens of Israel.
Last week a chareidi man was attacked on the subway in NY by an antisemitic teen. Should all Jews Stop taking the subway? A few months ago a visiting Rabbi was killed in Miami. Should all Jews stop going to Miami??
This past summer during Tzuk Eitan (the Protective Edge war) someone here asked if they should postpone their summer vacation trip with their children to Israel. The answers were split. Life went on as usual but even Israelis were jumpy and were staying close to home and to their protective rooms. We knew the war would last long and we just had to adjust to life in a war. But that didn't mean that people were on the beaches hoping to get lucky. We protected ourselves by not going to open places without protection. The army had laws about how many people were allowed to congregate in an unprotected place...
But this is very different. We fight terrorism very differently. We do not give in. We protect ourselves as well as we can. There will be armed guards outside of every shul. The streets have a lot more soldiers and policemen. Many regular citizens are carrying weapons. We do not give in to terrorism. But we do step up our protection.
We keep our eyes open looking for possible danger. Our enemies are constantly looking for new ways to get rid of us but we learn our lessons very quickly and protect against a repeat.
OP - I can't tell you not to be nervous. I know the attack in the shul really hit home with a lot of people. It was terrible. But this is like people who are afraid to fly cause the one plane crash every few years kills 500 people in one shot. And you know that you fly. You could have been on that plane. It's tremendous. But airlines learn and planes are safer and safer. We learn here too. Each attack makes things safer.
We will not give Yerushalayim up to terrorists. And we will not give Jewish lives up to terrorists either. We will still ride the NY trains. We will still vacation in Miami. And we'll bravely AND smartly keep Israel our home as was promised to Avraham Aveinu. Now isn't the time to run.
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abound
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 3:53 am
I live here, I walk the streets and my kids are also continuing their daily life. We talk about safety and take safety measures, (I won't walk to the Kosel these days but I would take a bus) but we know that ultimately it is all up to Hashem.
About coming, it depends why you are coming.
Solidarity= yes
Family simcha= yes
visiting family or freinds= yes
sightseeing/ touring= it depends on how brave/ scared you are. There are plenty of places you can visit without a difference, but there are many places that you will feel scared and then you won't enjoy it. Come to Israel at a time that you will appreciate it and enjoy yourself. It is our home-land, you should have good and happy memories of your trip.
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Frumdoc
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 5:10 am
I would go. In a flash. But I might be more self aware or cautious than usual. But my family live in Har Nof, I have walked past that particular shul many times, my dh has davenned there, as has my father, brothers and bils.
Yes, this feels very close to home, but it is still my home.
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 5:25 am
| 5mom wrote: | | Maybe the better question is, would you abandon Israel now? | Why now as opposed to the summer when there were rockets flying.
do you live here? (not sure from your post)
I was petrified during the summer and that was the first time in the 12 years I am here that I did want to leave.
But of course we are not leaving. Ill tell you that the last attack, in alon shvut for me was even closer to home than this one in that I live a few minutes away and my parents live there and even then, I was not happy go lucky, but we are not leaving.
And yes, this was terrible, terrible, horrible. There are no words for what happened. But we are not leaving OUR country.
If we do, the darn terrorists have won. And that we do not want. EVER!!!!
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etky
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 5:52 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | Why now as opposed to the summer when there were rockets flying.
do you live here? (not sure from your post)
I was petrified during the summer and that was the first time in the 12 years I am here that I did want to leave.
But of course we are not leaving. Ill tell you that the last attack, in alon shvut for me was even closer to home than this one in that I live a few minutes away and my parents live there and even then, I was not happy go lucky, but we are not leaving.
And yes, this was terrible, terrible, horrible. There are no words for what happened. But we are not leaving OUR country.
If we do, the darn terrorists have won. And that we do not want. EVER!!!! |
Shabbat - I may well be wrong but I understood that post differently. I think the poster was drawing an equivalency between stopping visits to Israel and abandoning Israel, in essence stating that if people stop coming it would be tantamount to abandonment.
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 6:03 am
| etky wrote: | | Shabbat - I may well be wrong but I understood that post differently. I think the poster was drawing an equivalency between stopping visits to Israel and abandoning Israel, in essence stating that if people stop coming it would be tantamount to abandonment. | If so, oops, sorry then I read it wrong.
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amother
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 6:18 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | And yes, this was terrible, terrible, horrible. There are no words for what happened. But we are not leaving OUR country.
If we do, the darn terrorists have won. And that we do not want. EVER!!!! |
I agree 100%, but visiting is not the same thing as living.
I don't live in Israel and like others said, there's danger everywhere. My husbands work was robbed at knifepoint yesterday. Three years ago, it was robbed at gun point. B'h no one was hurt either time.
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 6:38 am
| amother wrote: | I agree 100%, but visiting is not the same thing as living.
I don't live in Israel and like others said, there's danger everywhere. My husbands work was robbed at knifepoint yesterday. Three years ago, it was robbed at gun point. B'h no one was hurt either time. | Can I ask where you live?
Also, what is your point? You are saying that somone was robbed at gunpoint in your country and you are not leaving. So, again, what is your point?
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amother
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 8:20 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | Can I ask where you live?
Also, what is your point? You are saying that somone was robbed at gunpoint in your country and you are not leaving. So, again, what is your point? |
I was saying two different things. I agreed with what you were saying that of course if you live in Israel you shouldn't move because that's what they want, but already living is not the same thing as visiting. Then I said even though visiting is not the same thing, there's danger everywhere, even not in Israel. Does that mean that people shouldn't visit where I live because of what happened? Maybe they wouldn't because of the crime. The part of me not leaving, that's not by choice. I would love to move, but this is where our parnasa is right now.
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shabbatiscoming
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 8:33 am
| amother wrote: | | I was saying two different things. I agreed with what you were saying that of course if you live in Israel you shouldn't move because that's what they want, but already living is not the same thing as visiting. Then I said even though visiting is not the same thing, there's danger everywhere, even not in Israel. Does that mean that people shouldn't visit where I live because of what happened? Maybe they wouldn't because of the crime. The part of me not leaving, that's not by choice. I would love to move, but this is where our parnasa is right now. | look my in laws live in south africa. I am TERRIFIED whenever we go visit. a different kind of nervous than in israel. the crime there is insane (what you wrote about robbed at knife point made me think of SA) and yet my in laws stay there.
everyone also gets used to their own bad stuff. fortunately or not.
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Sanguine
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 8:42 am
| amother wrote: | | I was saying two different things. I agreed with what you were saying that of course if you live in Israel you shouldn't move because that's what they want, but already living is not the same thing as visiting. Then I said even though visiting is not the same thing, there's danger everywhere, even not in Israel. Does that mean that people shouldn't visit where I live because of what happened? Maybe they wouldn't because of the crime. The part of me not leaving, that's not by choice. I would love to move, but this is where our parnasa is right now. | I wouldn't judge anyone who is afraid to come here now or ever. The choice to live here is too long for this thread. But the point right now is that as opposed to the woman who was asking about coming here on vacation this past summer, the answer here is different. OP wasn't talking about roaming the streets of Yerushalyim. She's coming for a specific purpose and people aren't afraid to go to a wedding these days. So don't take a bus if you're afraid to stand in a bus stop. Don't ride the light rail. Take a taxi. Don't do what you're afraid to do but Israel isn't one big RED danger sign. Talk to the people who live here and find out where the danger is. Your relatives live here. You have all the women here. Find out if your fears are based on the real situation or just the newspaper stories (they don't write stories about the 8 million people who had fine, safe days here)
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amother
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 9:00 am
| Scrabble123 wrote: | | I have actually never been to Israel, but that's a thread for itself. |
Me too. 
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Sanguine
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 9:07 am
Scrabble123 wrote:
| Quote: | | I have actually never been to Israel, but that's a thread for itself. |
We're lighting candles here in 9 minutes (Yerushalayim lit already). Let's start this next week
Shabbat Shalom
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Ruchel
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 9:53 am
No! if only because I don't want to see on tv, etc, or have my kids see/hear it's in the country we are in.
Now yerida is something else (!!), though for various reasons (money, security, mix...) there are definitely yordim. I have friends and relatives considering. Not coming back to check on insults I'll get.
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Anion7
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Fri, Nov 21 2014, 10:36 am
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My husband and I were both in seminary/yeshiva during the 2012 rockets, and there was no place we would have rather been. Yes, we had to be more conscious of our surroundings and our usual hang outs were off limits for the time being. But the sense of connection and belonging to the Israel and the Jewish nation was nothing like each of us has ever felt before. We plan on going in January I"yh and dream to make aliyah one day. Keep your plans, daven and you'll be so pleased you went.
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StripedFlower
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Sun, Nov 23 2014, 9:21 pm
| 5mom wrote: | | Maybe the better question is, would you abandon Israel now? |
Why would you guilt trip people into going somewhere they're terrified to go?
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amother
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Mon, Nov 24 2014, 1:20 am
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Maybe I'm the only one, but I live in Israel and I left this summer. If things don't calm down soon, I have no intention of going back. And I own property there and have family. I'm walking away. I'm starting to get calls from Israeli-born relatives who want to come to me in Chul. I'm not so worried about what has happened, I'm worried about where this is going.
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5mom
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Mon, Nov 24 2014, 1:57 am
So sorry. I didn't mean to give a guilt trip. I live in Israel and I know what it means to be afraid. I also know that it's still safer than New York city.
More importantly, it's the land that Hashem gave us. And it didn't come with guarantees that things would be easy. Quite the opposite.
Fear is reasonable. I'm just saying that we should keep our eyes on the bigger picture.
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DrMom
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Mon, Nov 24 2014, 3:02 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | look my in laws live in south africa. I am TERRIFIED whenever we go visit. a different kind of nervous than in israel. the crime there is insane (what you wrote about robbed at knife point made me think of SA) and yet my in laws stay there.
everyone also gets used to their own bad stuff. fortunately or not. |
Yup. I remember after Hurricane Sandy, some colleagues here in E"Y were horrified at the photos of the damage published in the newspaper. "Why do people even live there??? Why don't they move somewhere less dangerous?"
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