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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
Parenting Tips Needed for Possible SPD/ADHD 3yoDS
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 12:33 am
Ok so I am NOT diagnosing my 3yo DS (my oldest child). BUT I am working on getting him evaluated for SPD as per his playgroup morah’s recommendation and based on reading I have done in the past couple weeks I think there is a decent chance that he does have SPD and possibly ADHD or some diagnosis under that umbrella (impulsivity, hyperactivity, etc) Im mainly looking for parenting tips in this post.

Some background: He is in constant motion, he doesn’t get boundaries and personal space or read social/body cues very well at all (sensory issues it seems to me). He jumps to different activities. He spends lots of time summersaulting, standing on his head against the couch or chair, and jumping.

At times it seems he has a mental block up and he cannot listen. Example: I see him heading toward his 1yo brother with a ball. I tell him do not throw it brother. He cannot seem to keep himself from doing it. If I take it away he will go so far as to find something else to throw at him.

I tell him not to lie on top of his friend, he does and will go back and do it a few times- even after I pull him aside, talk to him while looking in his eyes, give him a “thinking time” (aka time out) on the couch next to me. He just can’t do it. He knows he shouldn’t. He tells me before and after that he can’t do xyz. But when it gets in the moment he does it anyway. But then he goes and hugs his friend for about a minute which his friend also doesn’t appreciate.

He can do something that hurts someone, and the next minute is lovey dovey and excited. And not read the cues that his friend is still hurt and wants space at the moment. His teacher said that when he hurts kids its usually not in response to anything that she can see and not done aggressively- he just can’t stay in his space and keep his hands to himself and ends up hurting them. (He is not constantly hurting classmates, but is always getting into their space)

He also has not really been getting better/growing out of these behaviors. If anything they are getting worse as he gets older. I don’t think either DH or myself has ADHD or SPD tho we each do have a few symptoms but not enough that I would think we need a diagnosis (not getting in the way of our lives or anything) but I have a sibling with SPD and ADHD diagnosis. And my MIL has SPD (tho more in the touchy aspects, gets overstimulated by noise, smell, etc. but either way it’s in the family) and other family members have definite sensory aspects but not sure I’d say they have SPD but let’s say labels bother them and things like that.

Anyway I have read many parenting books and posts, but we are at a loss. I know that the regular stuff doesn’t work with ADD so I was wondering if anyone with more experience would have any advice for me. How can we get thru to him that he CANNOT keep knocking the 1yo down. That’s probably the biggest issue we have at the moment because he keep hurting him. It would also be nice to get the message about not always touching your friends, but that is not as much time of the day as he is around his younger brother. Any books to read (I have the out of sync child on hold at the library and also from chaos to calm.)? Insights to share? Blogs to send me to?

Right now we have a listening on the first time chart going on where he gets a sticker each time he listens the first time and when he fills the chart he gets a prize from our dollar store prize bag. (started with 10 stickers on the first chart, then 15 and now were on 20). Sometimes tho he will start listening (don’t hit baby with the ball) but then just turn back around and BAM. DH wants to try hitting him for hurting the baby - calmly remove him from the room and tell him you cannot hurt baby and since you did I have to give you a potch. But I REALLY don’t think that’s the way to go, so we are looking for better options.

Thanks so much for any help you can give me! Sorry for the long post!
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 12:46 am
It sounds like OT can help with many of these issues. The OT can also come up with an appropriate behavior management plan based on his abilities. I wouldn't worry so much about a diagnosis at this point, just focus on treating the symptoms.

Patching is not going to help anything and will probably just backfire.

ETA most three year olds do not have the ability to delay gratification in the sense that a 10-sticker chart requires. A child like yours has even less ability to do so. You will want immediate rewards if you're looking for effectiveness.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 12:56 am
Thanks!

So far we went thru 2.5 charts already. getting the sticker is part of the reward (we make a big deal about every sticker) and then he ALSO gets a prize when the chart is finished. We go thru them pretty fast- the first chart was started this past Sunday and hes finished 10, 15 and has 8 toward his 20 chart that he earned since friday afternoon. I think 20 will be the limit. (also the chart is only in effect when he is with us- which is a couple hours in the morning and evening plus weekends (both work FT)- so really doing pretty well with it imo)

and OT isnt happening tomorrow. First the dr wants stuff in writing from his morah, then we have to meet with him and then hopefully he will refer us to get evaluated... I was told it takes lots of time (months even) to et approved and since we are on medicaid im not hopeful that it will go any faster...
so any ideas or advice I can start with tomorrow/before then would be so so appreciated.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:01 am
Wow. Why is your dr giving you such a hard time? That's really unusual, I have to say. Meanwhile you should read as much as you can about sensory processing. The more you read the more you will understand about his behaviors, and then you can start figuring out how to treat them effectively. I've seen people giving random advice about trying different activities or whatever to treat certain behaviors, but honestly without a real understanding of the systems and how they effect everything about the child, you will be sticking band aids on in the dark, so to speak.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:09 am
I was told that it takes months to get to an OT by his morah from experience with previous students she had. She said if I start now then hopefully by the time he enters real school next year he should be just about getting to an OT and the school will work better with me if the process is underway.

as for the dr... well I spoke to the nurse in the office really to ask if DS needs to be at an appt discussing his behavior issues (we was there about a month ago for a well check- she said of course which I dont get but whatever) and she went onto a whole thing about getting in writing from his teacher first and sending it in and then after reading it the dr will decide if an appt is needed to discuss possible SPD. I had ANYWAY asked his teacher to write some examples and stuff for me so I would have notes to tell the dr. and I was taking my own as well. (its easier then going in and saying his teacher says he needs an evaluation. why? um I dunno... better to present a full picture imo)
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:14 am
OK, that's just an unusual course of events IME. For a child who is getting therapy through insurance and not through the school system, I mean. Usually you call the dr and say the school requested a script for an OT eval. You go pick up the script and call the therapist or therapy center and say you want to schedule an eval. You generally have an appt within about two weeks, and then depending on your insurance you may have another couple of weeks at most before therapy is approved. But maybe where you live it's a lot more complicated than that...
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:22 am
I agree with MBV about focusing on identification and treatment of his sensory needs rather than on a diagnosis. (And don't thing about ADHD at all at this age.) You must read, read, read. From your description of his behaviors, it is clear that he is seeking deep sensory input to muscles and joints. That is called proprioception. You need to provide alternative activities to the unacceptable ones that he engages in as well as provide a steady diet of proprioceptive input throughout the day even when he is not behaving badly--which really isn't bad behavior but his inept attempts at self-regulation. Some ideas in the meantime:

1. Instead of having him bump into and hug people, buy him a giant-size, bigger-than-him stuffed animal or something similar that he can hug and wrestle with. Any time you see him thinking about using a person for his proprioceptive needs, redirect him to the bear.

2. If he likes to throw balls, get him an indoor basketball hoop and any time he aims his ball at a person redirect him to his hoop.

3. Teach him to create a nest of pillows and blankets on the floor and jump from chair or couch into the nest, as many times as he needs to to feel good.

4. Hanging upside down is GREAT for regulating. Let him do that.

5. Learn how to give him a massage or read up on brushing.

6. Wheelbarrow: Hold him by the ankles as he walks around the room on his hands.

7. Take him to the park to climb or hang from the monkey bars as frequently as you can manage it.

8. Have him do heavy work that involves pushing, pulling or carrying heavy things. Weighted vests or blankets might also be helpful.

9. Try an exercise band for him to engage arm and leg muscles.

Google sensory diet and proprioception for more ideas and definitely read the Out of Sync Child as soon as you can so you will have a broader understanding of sensory processing and your child's specific needs.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:32 am
The others have given tips at least as well as I could. But I have to wonder why are you going through health insurance rather than Dept of Ed for the OT? On medicaid especially I hear it is practically impossible to get OT for something like this, whereas if he is demonstrating the behavior in school it should not take nearly that long to get it with DOE if you do it right.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:36 am
Seeker, that is very much dependent on the state. I suspect that op is out of NY, and in many cases it makes more sense to pursue therapy through insurance vs through the DOE. NY is sort of an exception in that sense.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:38 am
Thank you! Thank you!

I wasnt looking for a diagnosis as much as wanting to get him as much help as he needs for the benefit of everyone involved. The more help the earlier, the better, thats for sure, be it OT or behavior therapy (or both) the only reason I even brought up ADHD at this point is not because I want to say he has it, but if there are parenting tips that work specifically with those disorders I would love to hear them.

at his well check I did bring up to his dr that he seems more energetic then most and we were getting a bit concerned about it (but I didnt have concrete examples to point to specific behavior- if his morah would have mentioned SPD a couple weeks earlier I would have looked it up and said he does xy and z etc but she didnt so... I didnt) he said they expect to much from kids these days and theres nothing you can do till 5/6yo and its not normal to have to sit still at 3. So I think he may anyway be slow to go for labels and diagnosis maybe? (is that good bad I dunno) (and im not in NY so maybe things are diff in my state- tho would be nice if he can start within month or so- and maybe ill just call back and schedule an appt with the receptionist and skip the nurse now that she said he has to be there)

thank you 5*mom for all those ideas and some more keywords to google. other then out of sync child which I hope to get sooner then later, do you have any other reading recommendations? Also where would I find weighted vests? if an OT would recommend one would insurance cover it? or is it out of pocket anyway?

thanks again!
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:41 am
Weighted vests should not be used without following specific guidelines and wearing schedules. I don't recommend using one without the input of a therapist who has met with him.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:42 am
seeker wrote:
The others have given tips at least as well as I could. But I have to wonder why are you going through health insurance rather than Dept of Ed for the OT? On medicaid especially I hear it is practically impossible to get OT for something like this, whereas if he is demonstrating the behavior in school it should not take nearly that long to get it with DOE if you do it right.

im not in NY.
Also he is not in a school school, but a basement playgroup. His morah is more laid back then most of the others for 3 yr old groups (which is why I picked her) and often gets the more lively kids so she does deal with him pretty well and told me that overall hes having a good year but shes able to redirect him more then if he had been in a larger or more rigid group. in my states they dont start in a real school till 4yo...
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:46 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
Weighted vests should not be used without following specific guidelines and wearing schedules. I don't recommend using one without the input of a therapist who has met with him.

I've not heard of this, but you can also fill a small backpack and have him carry it around. When employing any of these activities, it is crucial to observe your child's reaction and follow his cues. My daughter, at about 4 or 5 would pick up rocks on her way to gan and drop them in her backpack on her own. This was way before I knew anything about sensory processing and neither of us knew why she was doing it but it didn't bother anyone so I didn't interfere. Another daughter, a very early walker, would push around my heavy wooden dining room chairs at under a year old. These are all attempts to self-regulate. The body will seek what it needs. Take care though to watch for overstimulation.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:46 am
I would also suggest eliminating processed sugars and artificial food coloring from his diet, completely. This makes a big difference for many kids with behaviors such as you describe. Including my child.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:47 am
MaBelleVie wrote:
Weighted vests should not be used without following specific guidelines and wearing schedules. I don't recommend using one without the input of a therapist who has met with him.

ok thanks!

also if I suspect my 1yo may also have some sensory stuff (diff then his brother- he seems more bothered by stimuli- like getting him to sleep in cars is a pain- esp on long road trips, and I dunno before I started looking into SPD I thought my younger one was sensory) is there a point in trying to get an evaluation now? Esp if it may be covered by EI? (although I just checked the checklist for infants and I couldnt check off even one for him so maybe not.... tho then again other then activeness I cant say I would have really checked off any for my older son at that point either...)
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 1:51 am
seeker wrote:
I would also suggest eliminating processed sugars and artificial food coloring from his diet, completely. This makes a big difference for many kids with behaviors such as you describe. Including my child.


what does she eat that has no processed sugars or food coloring????
DS is kinda picky. (so am I and I def think thats my sensory symptom since its very texture based by me)
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 2:06 am
amother wrote:
what does she eat that has no processed sugars or food coloring????
DS is kinda picky. (so am I and I def think thats my sensory symptom since its very texture based by me)

Food!
(mine is only medium-picky. Not many sensory food aversions; most of the pickiness can be worked out. Won't eat soup though.)
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 2:16 am
seeker wrote:
Food!
(mine is only medium-picky. Not many sensory food aversions; most of the pickiness can be worked out. Won't eat soup though.)

lol but what foods? He eats cereal, yogurts, veggie straws, pretzels, graham crackers, animal crackers, cheese, rice cakes, drinks only water except a cup of juice on shabbos at each seuda (and not 8 oz- but his size cup), fruits, chicken, meat, pasta, ketchup (and more ketchup-loves the stuff), deli meats....
but alot of those things have food coloring and sugar (esp the beginning of the list which is basically what he has all day till supper) what can I substitute for those things? TY!
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 2:46 am
Forget about the diagnosis.
Get the book called: the nurtured heart approach; transforming the difficult child!
This is what you're looking for!
People who had their kids on medications and therapy completely changed that after parents started applying the methods from this book!
It's easy and fun and it works!!
Hope it works for you Wink
Good luck!
P.s. You can search it on amazon and read the reviews
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 23 2014, 3:08 am
I'm sure the nurtured heart approach is great and will possibly be helpful to OP, but I doubt it will remove the child's need for grounding stimulation... Though I never read it myself so I can't say Scratching Head

I'm not sure what was different about it at the OT than what we have tried at home with a trampoline, but I was amazed when I sat in on DD's first and second OT session how after a few jumps on a half-ball thing followed by crashing in a beanbag, she somehow seemed much better able to focus on the task that came afterwards. There was a difference in her whole demeanor. I hope one of these days the OT will help me understand more because when I have tried jumping or other proprioceptive activities at home I didn't see such a result. Maybe I need to buy a half ball thing...
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