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Spinoff - Embracing the Convert
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melalyse




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 27 2014, 8:58 pm
imasoftov wrote:
Maybe the person from Kansas gets tired of telling the same story over and over again after a few decades of living in Oz. And maybe an interesting thing or two has happened since they moved.


And I'm sure that if I spend enough time with them that will come up in conversation.
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Rodent




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 1:54 am
The rabbi backed out of conducting our wedding a week beforehand. He knew from the start that I was a convert (before I was engaged even) but decided that because he worked for Syrians it wasn't a good thing for his reputation to conduct a marriage involving a gioret and backed out last minute leaving us scrambling for a replacement.

Don't even get me started on the Syrian business. That issue alone should cover this topic...
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 2:55 am
Rodent wrote:
The rabbi backed out of conducting our wedding a week beforehand. He knew from the start that I was a convert (before I was engaged even) but decided that because he worked for Syrians it wasn't a good thing for his reputation to conduct a marriage involving a gioret and backed out last minute leaving us scrambling for a replacement.



How rude!
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amother


 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 3:06 am
"My question is, I don't know any converts IRL."

A: I bet you do! Most of us just don't "share," especially when we don't have to!

"So at the risk of sounding stupid - do converts ACTUALLY feel alienated and degraded? Beyond just the Freundel scandal (I obviously do not approve of mikvah voyeurism!!) - what are converts experiencing that is so alienating?"

A: Yes & no. Depends upon the person and the situation. My ex's family constantly degraded me over being a ger, even though they weren't frum (not SS, SK, SThM, and didn't celebrate Sukkos, Shavuos, or Tisha b'Av in any way). Other people degrade me by asking me to share my ENTIRE spiritual experience with them after knowing them for 5 minutes.
The worst, though, is when people assume I converted for my now-ex. It's so painful, because it makes me sound like I have no real connection to Yiddishkeit outside of a man! That also boils down my spirituality into love for a guy and makes me sound very shallow.

"As I said, I am happy to fight the good fight for inclusion of everyone Jewish, we are all One People, but I guess I don't quite understand what I am fighting for."

A: You don't have to fight anything, necessarily, just be careful about how you speak because you never know who is standing by. If you want to go further, ask at your shul if there are people who need places to go for meals, people to show around town, people who want someone to learn with, etc. There are a bunch of little things you can do. This also applies to BT's, widows, people who don't have family around, divorcees, etc.

Things I HATE That People Say to Me About Being a Ger

1) When you meet gerim, DO NOT ask us how our parents feel about us converting. Some people have genuinely pyscho parents, b'h I don't, but it's not such a pretty topic to bring up for many people. Also, even though my parents are awesome - do you really think I feel zero guilt about the fact that I feel like I've abandoned my parents for their holidays?

2) STOP reminding me I can't marry a Kohein! I KNOW!! And I have no desire to marry a Kohein, but even if I did, it's really not nice or necessary. We actually learn halacha when we convert, and don't need to be re-taught by random people. It's so frustrating to hear this again and again, like I was born yesterday.

3) STOP telling me about how the conversion process works when YOU DON'T KNOW! And yes, if you haven't been through it, then you don't know! Please don't tell me, "Oh, it's halacha that a ger has to be turned away 3 times," when it's NOT the stam halacha, that is one opinion listed in the shulchan aruch. How is it, btw, that everyone seems to know this 1 opinion and not the halacha d'oraita to be nice to the ger?!

4) Like another poster said, I don't need people to translate for me! If I need to know what a word means, I'll ask. I had one friend who was a native Yiddish speaker who constantly referenced someone named "The Eibishter." Finally, I asked her if that was a weird name for her grandfather or something and we had a good laugh. But, I know most words and am comfortable with them.

5) If you know I'm a ger, don't talk sh*t about non-Jews. The way that some people speak, you'd think EVERY SINGLE non-Jew has family members who sit around smoking pot, watching p*rn, beating their kids then going to Miss America pageants while eating shrimp deep fried in bacon and worshipping idols.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 4:15 am
amother wrote:
I agree with do much that's been said previously. As someone who is not white people always assume I'm a convert (which I am, but plenty Jewish people of color are not). I'll just point out some of my general do's and don'ts below.

Don't ask me my story, if I don't volunteer it , it means I'm not interested in sharing it.

I don't care if you find converts inspiring, and my story would give you chizzuk. If you want to be inspired go to a shuir.

I don't need you to teach or explain everything to me. If I have a question I'll ask. They make us study for a conversion, so you can assume I have somewhat of a clue.

Stop staring, I am not going to grow horns. It's rude and makes the object feel uncomfortable.

Don't say things about me in Yiddish or Hebrew and assume I don't understand.

Don't tell me how "special" you think I am and then treat me like a second class citizen (by not accepting my children in schools, not letting your kids play with mine, and/or not considering me or my kids in shidduchim).

Don't assume I have some crazy and wild past (I don't) and try and ferret it out of me. Too often people are looking to get some vicarious thrill out of me that doesn't exist. All non-Jews aren't swinging from the chandeliers regardless of what rabbis try to scare people with.

Do treat me the same way you treat every other FFB Jew. That's it. I just want to be considered and treated a Jew like everyone else. I spent years studying, changed my entire life, created serious tension in my very close and loving family, etc. to then be treated like a second class citizen after all that is beyond frustrating.


Awesome post. The bit about "special" was particularly potent. Alas, this post is necessary, as highlighted by the recent initially innocuous "Gemachim in Toronto" thread on here...
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amother


 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 7:01 am
Rodent wrote:
The rabbi backed out of conducting our wedding a week beforehand. He knew from the start that I was a convert (before I was engaged even) but decided that because he worked for Syrians it wasn't a good thing for his reputation to conduct a marriage involving a gioret and backed out last minute leaving us scrambling for a replacement.

Don't even get me started on the Syrian business. That issue alone should cover this topic...


I'm OP ---

That's terrible. I am so sorry that you went through that..

Thank you everyone who posted for opening my eyes. I see that it is more the idea (well not in the above case but in general) of being singled out for being different or perhaps "unauthentic" than being outright oppressed. I will keep this in mind for my future interactions if someone does happen to mention to me that they are a convert.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 4:11 pm
If you want to see what converts are up against, just stay on imamother. You'll pick it up (e.g., a recent thread about how converts should not be allowed to hold positions of authority in the Jewish community).

Quote:
If someone tells me they have a father or a husband with an unusual profession, it is interesting to hear about it. If someone wants to know about a Ger's story, Usually they are just interested and want to connect. I would think that asking someone's story is davka "embracing the convert" by caring about where they came from and looking up to them.


You know what? I'm very interested in the shidduch system, because that's not how my husband I met and married. So right after you tell me about every shiddduch that was redt to you, how it came about, whether you said yes or no, what happened on each and every date, what you talked about what your wore, etc. then I'll be happy to talk to you about my journey to Judaism.

And can I just say AMEN! to the person who said not to ask about how a person's parents/family feel about their conversion. You've got a 50/50 chance of stabbing your "interested" self into a very painful place in their lives. Is anyone's interest or curiosity or chizzuk or whatever you want to call it worth that? Maybe I can tell you about the great conversation I had with my brother in law where he told me I was going to burn in hell for converting. Because that was a really good memory and I'm so happy you brought it up. Twisted Evil
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amother


 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 1:54 pm
I'm just shock at some of the stories here! I'm a giyores (though my father's whole family is Jewish), and since converting I have never been less than fully accepted.

Before even converting, I applied to two seminaries, got accepted to both (on condition that I complete conversion before starting, which I was planning to do anyway). Got there and surprised people with my knowledge. "What do you mean you're a convert? What do you mean this is your first time celebrating the Yamim Tovim as a Jew? I would never have guessed!" I regularly get mistaken for FFB (and I love it, and I don't correct them. Once, in discussing hair-covering hashkafos, an acquaintance said in passing, "I mean I don't know how your mother covers HER hair" and I had to work hard to keep myself from cracking up). Anyway, once I got to sem three different people had shidduch suggestions for me within a couple months - I chose to postpone them - and when I did take one of the suggestions, I got engaged six weeks later. He's a ger too, although the person who suggested the match didn't actually know that about either of us when she suggested it (!) And I just asked my husband what his thoughts were, and he though for a minute and said, "I have not had anyone treat me worse because I'm a ger. If anything, they go out of their way to be nice to me when they find out."

Honestly, I feel like IF has made me much more of an outsider than being a ger has, as all of our friends have gone on to have children and we haven't.

anon because I mentioned DH, but if anyone wants to know more, they are welcome to quote this post and ask for a PM.
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 1:58 pm
amother wrote:
I'm just shock at some of the stories here! I'm a giyores (though my father's whole family is Jewish), and since converting I have never been less than fully accepted.



So happy to hear that you and your DH have had positive experiences.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 8:38 pm
My husband's father is a ger. DH always felt very self-conscious about this growing up. However I believe that is very likely just DH's personality, he is very sensitive. I'm not sure whether people actually hurt him over this. His father, fwiw, seems to have very good friends in the frum community and seems perfectly fine and well-adjusted. He is close with some big rabbanim and others respect him for that as well. DH has a few complexes, at this point we don't live near his father or anyone he grew up with so I don't even see how anyone would know he's the son of a ger. But this is an extremely touchy topic for him. He HATES Jewish Geography, even though I keep telling him there are plenty of people who don't have lots of frum relatives. Sigh. But yes it seems when he was a child people may have made insensitive remarks about his origin.
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