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Educational Advocate?
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 27 2014, 7:10 pm
A colleague of mine asked if I know how she would go about finding an educational advocate to come down to her school's ISP meeting with her.
She is not Jewish, sends to public school, feels her daughter is highly underserviced.
Does anyone know where you can find one? I know how to find an ADHD advocate (CHADD has a referral service) but her daughter is not ADHD.
Any suggestions?
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 27 2014, 9:35 pm
I know of two very good advocates in NYC who deal with all types of situations. If this would be helpful (you did not happen to mention location) please PM me and I will give you the names and numbers privately.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 11:45 am
To clarify, thanks to all who PM'd me - she needs an advocate familiar with the process in Brick, NJ.
any suggestions?
thanks!
debsey
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 12:01 pm
You probably have nothing to lose if you call an NY advocate and ask if they also deal with NJ. I wouldn't be surprised if some do. But sorry we weren't more helpful!
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 12:35 pm
I appreciate it. I know for a fact that the school is lying to her - they told her she can't get any accommodations on the basis of her daughter's psychiatric disorder. (Her daughter is diagnosed with anxiety disorder and selective mutism). She really does need an advocate, but she has limited funds.
What I was able to tell her is that this is NOT true. Her daughter is entitled to accommodations.
I just don't know enough to help her more than this without researching it.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 12:42 pm
Wow, that's pretty galling Sad Did she try fighting for it herself meanwhile? She can show them where her daughter falls in IDEA (http://www.parentcenterhub.org/repository/categories/#ed) and tell them she will call the local Department of Ed to request a fair hearing if her needs are not accommodated.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 3:01 pm
Okay, I know we spoke via pm but putting this out here so others can see and maybe also get help. I had not come back to this thread so I missed your last few posts. If her daughter has a psychiatric diagnosis she is definitely entitled to services but not under special education. She needs a 504 asap which is administered by the guidance dept. With documentation of her psychiatric diagnosis, the shcool is obligated by law to put a 504 in place with the accommodations we discussed. The reason they are balking is because special ed money is tight so anyone that is not knowledgeable of the system gets pushed aside. Definitely get the 504 bec she has documentation of a medical diagnosis. They will faster accommodate her bec special ed won't have to dish out the $$ for this.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 3:03 pm
groisamomma wrote:
Okay, I know we spoke via pm but putting this out here so others can see and maybe also get help. I had not come back to this thread so I missed your last few posts. If her daughter has a psychiatric diagnosis she is definitely entitled to services but not under special education. She needs a 504 asap which is administered by the guidance dept. With documentation of her psychiatric diagnosis, the shcool is obligated by law to put a 504 in place with the accommodations we discussed. The reason they are balking is because special ed money is tight so anyone that is not knowledgeable of the system gets pushed aside. Definitely get the 504 bec she has documentation of a medical diagnosis. They will faster accommodate her bec special ed won't have to dish out the $$ for this.


Edited to add that by law there is a timeline for initiating the 504 so she should research Nj laws for 594s and demand compliance. She is fully entitled with a medical diagnosis.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 4:48 pm
Plse don't assume anything about what the child is entitled without a lot more info.

Also please recommend your friend get an attorney, not an advocate. Advocates often charge too much, and can't legally do much. Attorneys will sometimes take pro bono cases or wait for a settlement agreement where their attorney fees are taken care of by the other side.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 28 2014, 4:49 pm
Also good Shabbos!!
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 6:39 pm
marina wrote:
Plse don't assume anything about what the child is entitled without a lot more info.

Also please recommend your friend get an attorney, not an advocate. Advocates often charge too much, and can't legally do much. Attorneys will sometimes take pro bono cases or wait for a settlement agreement where their attorney fees are taken care of by the other side.


Thanks, Marina
I know from my own child's saga that a child with a 504 plan (with a psychiatric diagnosis) is entitled to services. This is why she and I were talking about it. Her principal straight up lied to her and said there is NO SUCH THING as a 504, that an anxiety disorder/selective mutism does not entitle you to any services or any accommodations, and there's no such thing as a psychiatric impairment that gets you any sort of services. We all know that is not true. Her psychiatrist told her that this is untrue! The psychiatrist said that she writes up addendums to service plans for Boards of Education all the time,

First of all, most of what she was asking for is just common sense, not even something that needs to be mandated by law. The rest of it also didn't sound outlandish - but for her principal to tell her she's entitled to nothing at all is untrue.

I did pass on the name of two special education attorneys that I know - both of whom are not cheap, but you are correct - the advocates she called (from googling educational advocates) wanted MORE for what appears to be less service. Thanks for that tip.

I don't understand at all why the principal is choosing to make this adversarial. My colleague showed me the letter the principal wrote to her and it was written in a very nasty way - I can't understand why a principal would WANT to get a parent angry.
debsey
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 6:59 pm
Sounds like the principal is trying to scare her off so they can get away with not paying for special accommodations. She really should hire a lawyer, I bet very quickly they would do whatever she wanted, because it's probably cheaper for them than going through a law suit, bad publicity, etc.
Your friend would be smart to make sure she saves every single letter or e-mail from them.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 7:47 pm
I agree about the lawyer. I'm puzzled as to why the principal is involved. 504s are the guidance dept and IEPs are the CST. Is this not a public school we're talking about? Highly unusual...
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 29 2014, 8:54 pm
groisamomma wrote:
I agree about the lawyer. I'm puzzled as to why the principal is involved. 504s are the guidance dept and IEPs are the CST. Is this not a public school we're talking about? Highly unusual...


This is a public school in Brick. She spoke to the CST about getting her daughter evaluated. Her psychiatrist told her it's not necessary, she should get services based on 504 for the anxiety disorder and the selective mutism. She called the CST back and asked, how do I get a 504? And got a nasty call from the principal, telling her there is no such thing. She called again, and got a really nasty letter back. At this point, she needs to get some help from an attorney. I don't get why the principal is making this adversarial.
debsey
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amother


 

Post Sun, Nov 30 2014, 7:28 am
Yes get the lawyer. I work in a public school and the parents who bring a lawyer get what they want fast. The educational advocates are sometimes good but some are counterproductive - we had one who went ballistic and screamed in our faces because we weren't qualifying a student based on a discrepancy model, which is no longer used - she looked ridiculous and it was embarrassing for everyone.

Make sure your friend comes across as reasonable at the meeting, though - let the lawyer be the bad guy if need be - because sadly the people who work daily with the kid will be less motivated if mom is difficult.

Make sure all communication with the principal and the team is done in writing - email is easiest - don't have important conversations over the phone or in the hallway especially if the principal is a nutjob.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 30 2014, 2:05 pm
amother wrote:
Yes get the lawyer. I work in a public school and the parents who bring a lawyer get what they want fast. The educational advocates are sometimes good but some are counterproductive - we had one who went ballistic and screamed in our faces because we weren't qualifying a student based on a discrepancy model, which is no longer used - she looked ridiculous and it was embarrassing for everyone.

Make sure your friend comes across as reasonable at the meeting, though - let the lawyer be the bad guy if need be - because sadly the people who work daily with the kid will be less motivated if mom is difficult.

Make sure all communication with the principal and the team is done in writing - email is easiest - don't have important conversations over the phone or in the hallway especially if the principal is a nutjob.


Thanks. She is the sweetest person, I can't imagine she'd yell or be difficult, but I'll mention it. Honestly, it was the teacher who said - hey, get the kid accommodations so we can work on some of this stuff - she feels bad now because the principal is probably mad at the teacher.
But I told her to hire a lawyer. I don't think the principal has a right to respond to a letter to the guidance dept. requesting a 504, I think that's in the purview of guidance, not the principal's call. I have a feeling, though, that one lawyer's letter will settle the matter.
I am projecting here- I honestly think that because she is an immigrant and doesn't speak perfect English, the principal thinks she can ignore what she requests, and that she won't be savvy enough to look into it further. Don't mistake an accent for a low IQ - she is a bright woman and she is just asking for reasonable accommodations.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 30 2014, 4:23 pm
I agree with amother above. Some insight regarding the principal: Special ed services is paid for by funding from the Special Education dept. while 504 comes out of the school's budget. The principal may well be hysterical because the school may be short on funds. Just a thought.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 30 2014, 4:29 pm
groisamomma wrote:
I agree with amother above. Some insight regarding the principal: Special ed services is paid for by funding from the Special Education dept. while 504 comes out of the school's budget. The principal may well be hysterical because the school may be short on funds. Just a thought.


I agree. Clearly, the principal has a vested interest here, and I get that it comes out of her budget. I don't get lying to a parent, though.......
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 30 2014, 6:38 pm
section 504 funds for a child with anxiety shouldn't be a blip on the school budget's radar.

None of us here are qualified to decide whether the child needs services, accommodations, modifications, and, if so, through what mechanism.

That is for the Section 504/ ETR/ IEP team, of which the mother is an important part, to decide.

I feel like I don't know the whole story here. Does the immigrant parent have a translated copy of your state's special education laws? Does she have an interpreter to assist her?
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:30 pm
That was my thought too; unless they're asking for counseling, which would be a related service not an accommodation, what would be scaring the school about this???
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