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How do I deal with this woman????



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amother


 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 5:21 pm
We are organising a wedding and this question concerns our dc's mother-inlaw to be. She's a dominating strong-willed person and has been quite rude and pushy during the planning. They are a less religious family than ours and we have agreed to not having separate seating but separate dancing with a mechitza. We were discussing mechitzas and I brought up the fact that since there will be mixed seating we need to organise the mechitza in a way that the men don't have a clear view of the women dancing. Since the tables are situated mostly around the dance floor this means the mechitza can't be limited to just down the centre but also around the sides. She freaked out. She screamed 'I'm not having a cage at the wedding! None of our friends care about that and I won't have it!' I'm willing to compromise on things but how is it okay to compromise on halacha? I'm finding dealing with her stressful and am building up serious resentment towards her. Any ideas on how to handle this?
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youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 5:51 pm
AYLOR

On second thought, find a rav who has experience with this issue.

Find out what you can and can't compromise on.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 5:56 pm
With our wedding, my parents insisted on mixed seating, my ILs insisted on separate. Dh and I didn't care about the seating but we did care about the dance floor situation. We ended up having some tables mixed and some separate. We put the mechitza diagonally across the dance floor. The women's side was facing the band and the women's tables, and the men's side was facing the men's tables and the mixed tables.
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SingALong




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 5:58 pm
I was once at a wedding like this. The dancing area was off to the side with mechitza down the middle. Tables on ladies side of dancing was ladies only. Tables in the middle able to see both dancing were mixed. Men only tables, of men who did not want to see ladies dancing were placed near men's dancing. It accommodates the non drum and super from guests.

I'd just tell her that there are ppl on your side who won't come unless certain standards are kept, and you want those people there. I agree with asking Rav what to do
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 6:01 pm
No offense but why are you discussing this here instead of with your Rov
IMVHO I agree with your mactenista
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 6:05 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
No offense but why are you discussing this here instead of with your Rov
IMVHO I agree with your mactenista


Because nobody ever posts here for validation in addition to discussing it with their rav?

Of course you do...because it will stir the pot.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 6:43 pm
I totally had this situation with my mil. I insisted on a "cage", and we had some ladies only tables right next to the mechitza on that side. I got one of those ladies to make sure no one pulled it aside (they did try Rolling Eyes )

As the kallah, I just put my foot down and said this is how it is happening. No discussion, or I am not dancing at my own chasunah. This was after lots of tiptoeing round, and her telling me I was being too frum, and silly, etc etc etc.

Maybe get the chasson and kallah to say it, if they also feel strongly. It is harder to say no to their request, it has higher status than the two MILS duking it out, they trump.

She got over complaining about it, after about six months of marriage. She still thinks I am crazy frum (so not!), but I mostly just smile politely and say "this is how I want to do my thing, you do yours however you wish".
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 6:51 pm
We had a million discussions and diagrams. Mixed seating, separate dancing, no men seeing women dancing.

Ended up with dance floor at one end, L shape around women, less around men, and women only tables at entrance to L, so it obscured the dancing. Compromise. But it worked. Seen it done several times since, but depends on the hall.

Lots of compromising done on both sides. It was a good start to learning how to negotiate in a relationship.
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nyer1




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 6:52 pm
Can u have separate and mixed? Many people do this and it makes both families happy. Keep the separate women on the women's side, obviously. we had this at my wedding. I Agree that it would feel caged if u did it that way! Kinda strange if u ask me
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Happy18




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 6:57 pm
You need to talk to a rav. There are too many factors that come into play in this kind of situation.
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animeme




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 7:16 pm
We ignored the room's dance floor. All the tables, mixed in one block, covering half the room (some were on the dance floor). Then an L of mechitzas, blocking the tables from the women's side and down the middle of the dancing. Band was at the corner of the men's side. Both dancing areas had some floor and some carpet. The mechitza was made of potted trees so it wasn't so imposing, but dense, so you couldn't see through.

Very modern crowd. Nobody objected.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 7:39 pm
Whatever her hashkafa is she sounds really rude. I hope she doesn't continue to be nasty to your daughter after the wedding.
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lovingmother




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 7:40 pm
I just posted the above, it came out as another by mistake
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chaos




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 07 2014, 10:27 pm
Just to offer some perspective, I know a lot of secular Jewish women who have a really visceral negative reaction to a mechitza. They see a mechitza as this barrier or wall and it just hits them in this raw way. To be honest, I did not grow up Orthodox and I used to have this kind of negative gut reaction to the mechitza when I first starting going to Orthodox shuls. It definitely took time for me to get used to the mechitza and feel comfortable in Orthodox settings. It's possible your child's mother-in-law to be is deeply uncomfortable with the concept and not a stubborn jerk for no good reason.

Talk to your Rabbi. I've been to a number of separate dancing, mixed seating weddings and I have never seen any kind of mechitza from the tables to the dance floor; it may not be required.

Can you ensure that the tables with guests on your side (assuming these are the ones who cannot see the women dancing) be situated on the men's side? The women on your side will go to the other side and the men can go straight to the dance floor without seeing the women dance.

Can you go for a more decorative, symbolic mechitza to the dance floor rather than a functional one in the form of large plants or sheer fabric? Something that feels more like decor could fulfill the purpose of a mechitza without generating that visceral reaction from the mother-in-law because it won't feel like a wall or cage.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 14 2014, 9:07 pm
some people just like to fight ... don't forget it has a great effect on the children getting married

compromise is always a good resolution
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 14 2014, 9:11 pm
chaos wrote:
Just to offer some perspective, I know a lot of secular Jewish women who have a really visceral negative reaction to a mechitza. They see a mechitza as this barrier or wall and it just hits them in this raw way. To be honest, I did not grow up Orthodox and I used to have this kind of negative gut reaction to the mechitza when I first starting going to Orthodox shuls. It definitely took time for me to get used to the mechitza and feel comfortable in Orthodox settings. It's possible your child's mother-in-law to be is deeply uncomfortable with the concept and not a stubborn jerk for no good reason.

Talk to your Rabbi. I've been to a number of separate dancing, mixed seating weddings and I have never seen any kind of mechitza from the tables to the dance floor; it may not be required.

Can you ensure that the tables with guests on your side (assuming these are the ones who cannot see the women dancing) be situated on the men's side? The women on your side will go to the other side and the men can go straight to the dance floor without seeing the women dance.

Can you go for a more decorative, symbolic mechitza to the dance floor rather than a functional one in the form of large plants or sheer fabric? Something that feels more like decor could fulfill the purpose of a mechitza without generating that visceral reaction from the mother-in-law because it won't feel like a wall or cage.


Interesting.

Perhaps a thick wall of fake trees, in pots. Really quite a lot. I suppose they can be rented. Charmingly varied, with fake flowers here and there.


Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Sun, Dec 14 2014, 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 14 2014, 9:13 pm
Dolly Welsh wrote:
Interesting.

Perhaps a bunch of trees. Fake ones, in pots. Really quite a lot. I suppose they can be rented.


A phalanx of potted palms is a classic, though it may not satisfy the real RW crowd for whom nothing short of the Walls of Jericho, pre-trumpet, will do.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 14 2014, 9:36 pm
I was at a wedding with mixed seating, separate dancing, but I don't really remember how they did it. I think there was one mechitzah and then another moveable one.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 15 2014, 1:15 pm
Mixed seating sep dancing is the norm/default by the frum here. Though there is a surge in separate seating :/
You hide the women with the mechitza. I don't see the prob
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