Services in house - am I being unreasonable?

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amother

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 6:55 am

My husband and some friends are trying to start their own minyan maybe once a month to start with. They don't have anywhere to do it and my husband keeps pushing to do it at our house and says that I'm being unfair and selfish for not wanting it in our home.

My argument:
1. He is paid to read the Torah for 2 other congregations. Even if he could arrange to do this one too he wouldn't even be here for most of the time. I'm not someone who likes having guests at the best of times let alone without him. Giving up reading elsewhere isn't an option, we desperately need the money.
2. I have a lot of small children. We can't keep the place in order ordinarily and he expects me to sort out the place to host services on a semi-regular basis. And for a while I will be having more kids at home full time so more kids to make mess and less chance to get things done. We have no paid help and no family locally to help either.
3. It would be in the kids' play room so I would have to occupy them in bedrooms and rooms in the house not designed for them that aren't as well contained, and expected to accept any extra children that might show up in addition to my own bunch.
4. My youngest cannot walk so going elsewhere isn't an option right now and I'm not having random children going through my house when I'm not around either.
5. There are other services around, maybe not exact tradition but they will not be without a minyan if we say no and it's not like anyone else is volunteering their space, they have fewer (1/2-1/3 of how many we have) and older children or teens only yet we're expected to host?
6. Our kids normally go elsewhere where they have friends and where there is a children's service, this would prevent that from happening.
7. Basically I'm expected to do a lot of extra work, him minimal. He gets all the glory and social benefits, I get the physical difficulty and emotional stress when I can barely keep it together as it is.
8. We don't have insurance for something like this, I don't want to get sued because someone's kid tripped up the front step and broke their ankle.

His argument:
1. I should appreciate that it's a mitzvah and that should outweigh the difficulties I would face.
2. There is no congregation of that background and that should be important to me.
3. I should be supportive of him and refusing is defeatist and selfish, I don't care about what is important to him (and back to the mitzvah thing)
4. There is nowhere else to go it so it won't happen without our room.
5. That I am the only thing standing in the way of this congregation being started - I think I'm supposed to either feel guilty about that or give in and say that he can go ahead.

I offered to allow it once the youngest is walking so I can take the kids elsewhere as a compromise but that involves waiting and isn't good enough for him. Am I being unreasonable?

chaos

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 7:08 am

Your concerns are extremely reasonable. We have friends who host a minyan once a month in their home and it is quite an undertaking. It is feasible and they enjoy it but it works because of specific conditions. In their case 1) husband and wife are both in agreement, 2) the issues of storing the Torah, Aron, and mechitza when not in use have been worked out, and perhaps most importantly, 3) there are no young children (youngest kid is teens and the crowd that attends this minyan really doesn't have kids. I cannot fathom hosting a minyan in a house where the husband and wife are not fully on board, invested, and both doing all the practical physical tasks to make the minyan happen and/or in a house with young children. It is inconsiderate and unrealistic for your husband to not listen to your concerns and keep pushing the issue in spite of it.

Does this minyan really have nowhere else they could meet? Maybe they could talk to the Rabbi of one of the shuls and see about using another space in the shul for their minyan or holding their minyan at a different time.

mo5

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 7:10 am

No, you're not being unreasonable.
Maybe you just need to communicate your needs about it better.
Or maybe offer to help find a different place?

amother

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 7:40 am

OP here.

The shuls aren't willing to allow them any space unless all participants become paying members of the shul. Since many of those who would come to make up the minyan are not the type that would pay a membership, and without them there wouldn't be the numbers, it means that they can't use rooms there. Another shul requires their rabbi to be in control, make all halachic decisions, and have the right to give a drasha. Considering the backgrounds and personalities involved, that isn't suitable either.

Other venues cost too much money (especially since it would need to be hired for a full 25+ hours, not just the 4 hours of a service, due to needing to leave a Sefer Torah, siddurim etc there from before and until after Shabbos).

abound

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 8:04 am

what about a school dining room or classroom?
I do not think you should do it unless you are completely on board.

grace413

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 8:20 am

You are not being unreasonable. Don't do it.

In addition to reasons already stated: how many bathrooms do you have? Will your kids be bursting while outsiders are using the toilets? And what about outsiders breaking your plumbing or anything else? Or tracking in mud, dirt, snow. Not to mention bringing in a ton of germs. Would this just be Shabbos morning or also Friday night?

Too much disruption for a household with small children.

nyer1

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 8:33 am

hugs. I feel for you. you're husband is the one being unreasonable. not fair of him to put this kind of pressure on you. it's not easy hosting a minyan in the home

cbg

Wed, Dec 17 2014, 8:33 am

You are notbeing unreasonable.
You have many valid points.

Maybe each member can take a turn hosting the minyan in their home. That means you would host 1 every 10 months at most. Once they make it a weekly thing they should find a more permanent solution.

Hatemywig

Sun, Dec 21 2014, 4:30 pm

It sounds like the Minyan is not the main issue but your husband's lack of respect for you is.

SRS

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:46 am

Your husband either is lacking in respect generally or just has no idea what this will entail. I personally am a believer is joining a community and think that trying to host those who aren't community people, unwilling to pay memberships and unwilling to take direction for a Rav, will be its own curse. Community people make things happen and might even come Thursday night and run a vacuum for you and clean the bathroom. People unwilling to join up aren't going to hire you a cleaning person or do it themselves.

amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 6:39 pm

I reluctantly let DH host a Shabbos service occasionally at our home. But he promised it won't be more than once a month, and I made it on condition that he and his friends have to be the one to tidy up the living room before and after. We also have young children but actually turned out better because their friends can come visit and all moms sit in the porch or playroom so I don't have to constantly chase after my kids. We have as many as 20men, 7 or 8 women and maybe at most a dozen babies and children, bathroom has never been an issue, dh and I joke that in the worst case we can send the men to the bushes. DH is very proud he can host miniyon at our house and for us it's not as bad as I feared. It's bit like the joke about an old woman asking rabbi the house is too small and he tells her to bring in chicken and cows. Just saying, but I would definitely not agree to do this every Shabbos.

greenfire

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 6:52 pm

he's putting the mitzva of an extra minyan [as you say there are others in town albeit different nussach] - over the mitzva of caring for his family ...

bottom line you & your children come first

I also question why all his friends can't do a rotation - so then it's less cumbersome upon each family

MamaBear

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 7:03 pm

Money needs to come from somewhere for a couple hrs of cleaning help to set up and then afterwards. Also for a mother's helper during that time.

Running a shul once a week is not your job unless you want it to be.

If you insist it can't happen, be nice and sympathetic about it, not angry. Some posters seem to have such anger. It's a nice idea in theory to have your own minyan. "I love you so much, dear husband, I wish I could handle this but I simply can not.....Or You can come up with ways to make it doable and perhaps we can try it once" goes over better than "You're crazy and horrible for pushing this on me."

sweetpotato

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 7:51 pm

OP, I think you're totally reasonable to not want to take this on. Can you ask your husband to explain the situation fully to his rav and ask him for advice? My strongest assumption is that any rav would tell your husband that his first duty is to your sholom bayis and there's no mitzvah in compromising that.

Alternately, you could try coming up with what it would take for you to be OK with hosting services once a month. For example, a cleaner (or volunteers) come before shabbos to clean and set up, and after shabbos to clean up and put things away. A babysitter to entertain your kids since they won't have their playroom. Money for supplies (extra toilet paper, coffee, whatever else is expected to be on hand). Homeowners insurance policy rider that indemnifies you from personal injury suits. And so forth. Figure out how much that would cost and tell your husband this is what you'd need for his minyan to be a reality. If the kehillah can't or won't contribute that, then they probably aren't serious enough about it anyway.

Learning

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:08 pm

amother wrote:

Wow. It sounds like a lot of work with no help at all. Why does he need a minyan for that background. It doesn't sound that it is a good enough reason for so much trouble for you and your children.

Dandelion1

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:24 pm

Basically what you are saying is that these guys

1. Don't want to pay membership fees to a shul that would give them a room
2. Don't want to contribute money to rent an appropriate space
3. Don't want to volunteer their own homes

But YOU are the one being selfish???? Rolling Eyes

amother

Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:45 pm

so sorry OP, this sounds like a real challenge for you. I agree with all the previous posters that it sounds unfair to expect you to do that.
BTDT, this sounds very familiar. Once upon a time, my husband and some friends wanted to set up a real yekkishe minyan with all the tunes of minhag frankfurt, there was nothing similar in town and they didnt want to do it in a shul for all the reasons you mentioned. There was a lot of friction involved in working out where they were going to have their minyan and dh couldnt see why on earth I wouldnt want it in our house. complete lack of understanding in the male mind, in my opinion. And then he invested a ton of money in getting the minyan off the ground... I was not happy.
I hope it gets resolved soon. good luck.

Iymnok

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 2:35 am

Did anyone here notice the update?
She tried it and it was okay.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jan 20 2015, 4:21 am

Iymnok wrote:

Did anyone here notice the update?
She tried it and it was okay.

I don think that other amother poster was the OP. It sounded like it was someone else giving her experience.

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