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Chulent on raw right before Shabbos?



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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 18 2014, 10:41 pm
I normally surely ask my LOR ("local Orthodox Rabbi", but does anyone know off hand if it's a simple black and white matter if it's okay for the chulent to go on raw right before Shabbos?
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 18 2014, 10:47 pm
amother wrote:
I normally surely ask my LOR ("local Orthodox Rabbi", but does anyone know off hand if it's a simple black and white matter if it's okay for the chulent to go on raw right before Shabbos?

It is black and white. In order to be able to keep food cooking over Shabbos, the food needs to be in one of two states: either mostly cooked or fully raw.
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oliveoil




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 18 2014, 10:56 pm
Yes, it's totally allowed. Lots of people do it that way.
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 18 2014, 11:05 pm
The way I remember learning it, all food has to be cooked K'Maichol Ben Drusoi, which is about 2/3 of the way cooked, by the time Shabbos starts. Otherwise it would be Mechezi K'Mevashel- it would look like maybe you were cooking on Shabbos.
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miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 18 2014, 11:10 pm
ra_mom wrote:
It is black and white. In order to be able to keep food cooking over Shabbos, the food needs to be in one of two states: either mostly cooked or fully raw.


This is correct, I know my brother and sister-in-law do this, and they are very makpid on halacha. The idea is if you KNOW it's raw leil Shabbos, you won't come to take it off and think it's ready to eat at night and therefore put it back and have it finish cooking until morning. Otherwise, it needs to be considered "primitively edible" when Shabbos starts.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 12:38 am
the world's best mom wrote:
The way I remember learning it, all food has to be cooked K'Maichol Ben Drusoi, which is about 2/3 of the way cooked, by the time Shabbos starts. Otherwise it would be Mechezi K'Mevashel- it would look like maybe you were cooking on Shabbos.

This is what I learned as well, and what my father just told me again when I asked a few weeks ago, and also what is written in the Halacha book I am learning. I never heard until I came here that you can put in a completely raw cholent right before shabbos. I was under te impression that this was like cooking and you would not be allowed to eat such a cholent on shabbos.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 12:40 am
I asked this very shaila to my LOR. It is not even bedieved. It is 100% l'chatchila that you can put on totally raw food right before Shabbat to be eaten for Shabbat lunch. No problem whatsoever.
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Greenbelle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 12:44 am
The halacha is as follows. Either the food needs to be cooked 'ki ma'achal ben drusa'I' OR it should be raw. I asked my Rav this exact question years ago and this is what he said.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 12:44 am
bein hashmashos the food must be

cooked & edible

or completely raw
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 2:53 am
miami85 wrote:
The idea is if you KNOW it's raw leil Shabbos, you won't come to take it off and think it's ready to eat at night and therefore put it back and have it finish cooking until morning. Otherwise, it needs to be considered "primitively edible" when Shabbos starts.
It has to be something like cholent that won't cook in just 2 hours. (I first turn on my crockpot when I light candles.) But one week I forgot to make rice so two minutes before Shabbat I poured boiling water over it and put it on the platta. Then we asked the Rav in shul on Friday night. The answer was - NO GOOD!! We couldn't eat that rice. It was raw before Shabbat BUT ready for supper - That's no good.

Now another issue - I heard that you can set up a coffee maker before Shabbat and have a clock turn it on Shabbat morning. Anyone know? And along those lines (or maybe I should ask this first) - -back to the cholent - can I have the raw crockpot first turn on at 10 PM? Does it have to be on before Shabbat?
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mo5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 4:15 am
Sanguine wrote:


Now another issue - I heard that you can set up a coffee maker before Shabbat and have a clock turn it on Shabbat morning. Anyone know? And along those lines (or maybe I should ask this first) - -back to the cholent - can I have the raw crockpot first turn on at 10 PM? Does it have to be on before Shabbat?

I know nothing about coffee makers
But I do know that the crockpot has to be on before Shabbos- otherwise it's cooking on Shabbos...
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cookiejar




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 6:44 am
Sanguine wrote:
It has to be something like cholent that won't cook in just 2 hours. (I first turn on my crockpot when I light candles.) But one week I forgot to make rice so two minutes before Shabbat I poured boiling water over it and put it on the platta. Then we asked the Rav in shul on Friday night. The answer was - NO GOOD!! We couldn't eat that rice. It was raw before Shabbat BUT ready for supper - That's no good.

Now another issue - I heard that you can set up a coffee maker before Shabbat and have a clock turn it on Shabbat morning. Anyone know? And along those lines (or maybe I should ask this first) - -back to the cholent - can I have the raw crockpot first turn on at 10 PM? Does it have to be on before Shabbat?


I am almost positive the crockpot has to be on before shabbos
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 19 2014, 7:17 am
Thanks - I put the crockpot on before shabbat. I'm more interested in the coffee pot issue coffee
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yOungM0mmy




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 8:55 am
You can put the food on completely raw just before Shabbos, but the theory is that you can only do it because you don't need it till the next day, therefore you can not open the cover until Shabbos day.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 9:41 am
Sanguine wrote:
Thanks - I put the crockpot on before shabbat. I'm more interested in the coffee pot issue coffee

That would be uncooked (raw) water, cooking for the first time on Shabbos. Sounds like an issue.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 2:15 pm
ra_mom wrote:
That would be uncooked (raw) water, cooking for the first time on Shabbos. Sounds like an issue.
If you start Shabbos with totally raw cholent that's raw water too. I'm going to try to track this down cause I actually heard about the coffee pot from someone who heard it from two sources.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 3:45 pm
ra_mom wrote:
That would be uncooked (raw) water, cooking for the first time on Shabbos. Sounds like an issue.


I dont know the answer to this, but water doesnt change when cooked, so I dont think that would be the problem if there is one.
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 4:31 pm
I tried googling about the coffee maker - It's not one of these questions that gives a yes or no answer. You get a long halachic discussion. Hemdat Yamin's bottom line is
Quote:
There are (and will be) many models of coffee makers, so one must ensure that his meets all the requirements and not assume or quote us as giving a blanket leniency.


Yeshiva World has a long discussion and the best answer was
Quote:
I am not sure you can find an issur, but trust the "chumro brigade" they'll find one soon.
Wink coffee
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 5:19 pm
ra_mom wrote:
That would be uncooked (raw) water, cooking for the first time on Shabbos. Sounds like an issue.


never heard of raw water ...

I give a heter to any coffee addicts to let their machine run on automatic timer ~ rebbetzin greenfire Mr. Green
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 21 2014, 7:45 pm
Sanguine wrote:
If you start Shabbos with totally raw cholent that's raw water too. I'm going to try to track this down cause I actually heard about the coffee pot from someone who heard it from two sources.

But the chulent is turned of before Shabbos, not turning on initially with a Shabbos timer on shabbos. There is a difference.
And it's true I don't know the status of water as other posters mentioned above. That's something to look into.
But the cholent raw before Shabbos is allowed to be turned on right before candle lighting, but raw cholent at the start of Shabbos with it first being turned on on Shabbos with a Shabbos timer is not allowed. There is a difference. That I know.
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