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What do you do for DD's bat mitzva?
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What do you do for DD's bat mitzva?
DD leins or leads service for women's tefilla group  
 8%  [ 10 ]
DD gives dvar torah at a shul during the service  
 4%  [ 5 ]
DD gives dvar torah after the service at social hall or at home  
 12%  [ 15 ]
Nothing official at the shul, just DH gets an aliya  
 4%  [ 5 ]
We don't do bat mitzva as such  
 69%  [ 81 ]
Total Votes : 116



shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:09 am
Mrs Bissli wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
I really don't understand. What does bat mitzva have to do with "taking her place as an adult in the Jewish community"? What mitzva is that? What role does a woman of any age have "as an adult in the Jewish community"? A Jewish woman's glory is in her home. Her mitzvos are in the home. Not in public. This is the day she takes on mitzvos, right? And that includes tznius. And tznius isn't just sleeve and skirt lengths. It is being modest - not being prominent in the community. So what you are saying is to teach her, on her bat mitzva day, to do the exact opposite of her role.


Women's mitzvot are not confined to her domestic duties. Especially in our day and age. Just look at ideals of Jewish women expressed in Ayshet Chayil and see how much of them are public roles. As for tzniut = not being prominent in the community, I leave it to Ruchel to bring up Rebbetzen Jungreis...


OK, I give up. Which public roles for a Jewish woman are mentioned in Eishes Chayil?
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:19 am
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Barbara wrote:
shabbatiscoming wrote:
newmom770 wrote:
Didnt read all replies.

My first thought are: this sounds so reform.

We do nice dinner party for girls classmates at home she says a dvar torah during the meal in front of her family and friends. Sometimes the mother invites her women friends as well. Then there is an activity maybe an art activity or something and usually dancing. Nice and heimish
What sounds so reform? A girl having a bat mitzvah party?


I don't know. A lot of people seem to think that "Reform" means not really paying attention to the deeper meaning of the ritual. That the bar/bat mitzvah isn't much more than an opportunity for a big party. without the need to learn or practice much Judaically. I don't agree; the Reform bnai mitzvah I've attended always include a demonstration of a lot of Jewish learning. But for people who see Reform that way, I suppose that a dinner at home for friends, an art activity and some dancing does sound awfully devoid of religious content, and much like a Reform bat mitzvah party. But she does say that there's a dvar Torah, so I'm not really sure why she would think that the party that she gives sounds "Reform."


When someone has joy because of the actual occasion, there is no need to add 'content' to make it spiritual.

For example, when someone makes a bris for their son, they are joyous that they have a baby and are doing the mitzva of mila. They don't need the father of the baby to read from the Torah that morning to add 'content'. The bris is the content.

Ditto until recently, when people were happy that two Jews were getting married, they didn't need any other content - the joy of setting up a new home bikdusha v'tahara was enough of a reason for celebration. This is still true in many circles. But some circles, who feel the need to add extra 'content' show that the marriage itself is not a big enough source of joy.

If someone has joy that they (or their dd) is obligated to perform mitzvos, that is the joy, that is the content. You don't need to add 'content' or special one-time mitzvos to mark the occasion. The girl is celebrating that from today she will daven and say brochos and dress tzniusly and learn - until she is 120. The whole celebration is a celebration of mitzvos.

If someone doesn't plan on keeping mitzvos, there is no reason for the party. So now we have to look for 'religious content' to justify even having it.


Can you explain what you need a bit further? Because as far as I'm aware, the father of a baby has precedence for an aliya the morning of his son's bris. Does that equal adding content?


Uh, no. That's halacha.
Quote:

Likewise, do you have anything against a chosson putting out a kuntres of some Torah that he's written to distribute at his chasunah? Or a bar mitzvah bachur making a siyum? Why are those not "added content" to the joy of the chasunah/ bar mitzvah?


Of course I don't have anything against it. I've never heard of a chosson doing that actually, but why not? I don't see a need for it, but very nice if someone does it. A bar mitzva bachur who makes a siyum (if he chooses to) does so to give something back to Hashem, to add another celebration. Sometimes it's for the halachic reason of making it into a seudas mitzva if it's not bo beyom. Not because a bachur who doesn't won't have content to his bar mitzva.

Quote:
Why is a bas mitzvah celebration that incorporates chessed, a course of learning of some Jewish text, or the fulfillment of a mitzvah in any way more "added content" than the bar mitzvah bachur's siyum? I'm confused.


I'm not saying there's anything wrong in doing an extra mitzva in honour of the occasion. My rant is against the idea of feeling a need that there MUST be some 'content' to an event which is joyous in itself. If someone feels they MUST add content, it seems they don't value the joy of a girl now having to daven, make brochos, do chessed and dress tzniusly every day of her life. And the extra mitzva shouldn't contradict the halachos or spirit of tznius. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong (and plenty right) with a girl taking challa or going to visit an old lady in an old age home or taking her neighbour's children to the park so the mother can rest or saying extra Tehillim or going to the kotel or visiting children in hospital etc. etc. in honour of her bat mitzva.
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Zus




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:28 am
I see what you're saying Shalhevet, and I agree with you.
That's exactly what my own bat mitzva was like; a celebration of me coming of age. And yes I prepared myself by taking extra lessons, and saying a dvar torah.
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Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 2:55 am
A new Bas Mitzvah can, for the first time, legally Take Challah. So, maybe she would like a Challah Baking Party.

On a Sunday, she could have a good time getting messy pounding flour with her girl friends, and while it was rising or baking, hear a talk about the history of challah, and bread, and the various kinds, and the halachic background, and then eat it for lunch after it was baked.

Or, it could be a simpler bread, not braided egg challah.

Or, the dough could be made ahead of time and all she would have to do would be to take challah - her friends yelling Omein.

The girls all form their own personal little loaves, gouging their initials into them so they can tell whose is whose, then they wait for the half-hour or twenty-minute bake.

This could take place in the kitchen of a shul, leaving her home clean.

The party favors could be aprons with her name and the date, easy to order at websites such as Zazzle or Cafe Press and there are others as well. Somebody could write the girls' names on them, with permanent marker, in a calligraphy style.

On her Bas Mitzvah Shabbos, she could have friends or close relatives at her house on Erev Shabbos, to watch her legally bentchlicht, her one candle, with her mother. She's a daughter of the commandments now. She could receive a new silver candlestick for the occasion.

As for dear Rebbetzin Jungreis, she obtained special permissions from rabbis, Orthodox male rabbis, to do what she does, that other folks don't necessarily have. I don't know if her daughters discourse on Torah to mixed audiences. Perhaps they address mixed audiences on other, more general matters. Or, they may discuss Torah to female audiences.

Ashes Chayil shows a woman doing business, but not doing public talking or leading. Her works are supposed to do the talking, in the last verse. Her husband is known in the gates; she is known by her works, in the gates, but she herself is not hanging around pontificating in the gates. He is. Let him. She is busy. Her talk is that a lesson of kindness is on her tongue. How do we know that is at home and not preached in the gates? Because she is so busy. She's keeping her household warm and provided with their portions, and her lamp is lit at night. Well, that's all done at home. Notice she is making belts, not rugs. A small item you could make at home. As for seeing her profit is good, and supervising her field's production, those are also personal matters, not done in the gates.

My grandma trimmed hats at home to bring in some money. Oh boy were the kids warm, bundled to the eyes, in the photograph.

Sure the girl could discuss Torah, with a female only audience.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 4:15 am
Raisin wrote:
why isn't a bas mitzva a seudas mitzva if a bar mitzva is? Women are also obligated in mitzvos, right?

This.

The girl is now obligated in mitzvot. This is a happy thing. Hence, we celebrate it. One common way we celebrate smachot is with dvrei Torah. Hence, in many communities, the bat mitzvah girl gives a drasha.

Seems straightforward enough. If that's not your thing, then so be it. Why this is so contentious or threatening is beyond me.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 4:27 am
shalhevet wrote:

Quote:
Why is a bas mitzvah celebration that incorporates chessed, a course of learning of some Jewish text, or the fulfillment of a mitzvah in any way more "added content" than the bar mitzvah bachur's siyum? I'm confused.


I'm not saying there's anything wrong in doing an extra mitzva in honour of the occasion. My rant is against the idea of feeling a need that there MUST be some 'content' to an event which is joyous in itself. If someone feels they MUST add content, it seems they don't value the joy of a girl now having to daven, make brochos, do chessed and dress tzniusly every day of her life. And the extra mitzva shouldn't contradict the halachos or spirit of tznius. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong (and plenty right) with a girl taking challa or going to visit an old lady in an old age home or taking her neighbour's children to the park so the mother can rest or saying extra Tehillim or going to the kotel or visiting children in hospital etc. etc. in honour of her bat mitzva.

I don't understand your reasoning at all.

I'd venture to say that at most frum bar-mitzvahs, there are dvrei Torah, or a siyum, or some sort of "content." Very few religious boys have a bar-mitzvah without some sort of "content." Are you saying that this indicates they do not value their obligation to mitzvot?

The only bar/bat-mitzvahs I have attended without "content" are those of the children of my 100% secular colleagues from work. By your logic, these secular colleagues of mine place more value on the obligations to mitzvot that their children now have than my religious friends and family members do. And yet, my interaction with them suggests the direct opposite.
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Isramom8




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 7:18 am
Did anyone point out yet that the "bat mitzva party" is fairly new? My MO family friend did not make one for her daughter, who is now 45. No one did.

My daughters experience bat mitzva as a bonding "girl thing". Not all their friends say a dvar Torah, but we won't make stam a party without a dvar Torah from the bat mitzva girl about something she learned. Thst's what makes it different from a regular birthday party.

Female DJs, music videos starring the bat mitzva girl, etc. are done by some in my daughters' circles, but are not for our family.
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grace413




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 7:33 am
Isramom8 wrote:
Did anyone point out yet that the "bat mitzva party" is fairly new? My MO family friend did not make one for her daughter, who is now 45. No one did.

.


My sister and I are way older than that and we had Bat Mitzvah parties.

And as a counterpoint, my 93 year old year FIL who grew up in Poland said the typical Bar Mitzvah celebration consisted of a shot of whiskey and a piece of kichel.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 7:57 am
Isramom8 wrote:
Did anyone point out yet that the "bat mitzva party" is fairly new? My MO family friend did not make one for her daughter, who is now 45. No one did.



So what if they are new? I also did not have a bat mitzvah party, and hardly any of my peers did. In contrast, almost all of my dds' friends did (DL circles).

Bar mitzvah parties are also 'new'. Not as new as bat mitzvahs, but new nonetheless. Maybe some more affluent people had a seudah, but certainly not everyone, and certainly in most places the guest list was confined to close family.

My opinion is that if you are going to celebrate a boy's coming of age and mitzvot with a party, then you should do likewise with a girl. If you do a huge public ceremony for the boy, you should do something huge for the girl. And if you do something very modest for your son, you should likewise do something modest for your daughter.

Luckily today it rarely happens, but ten or twenty years ago I remember there were families that would throw lavish community events for their sons, and nothing for their daughters. THAT I find incongruent.
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Liba




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 8:02 am
I brought my daughter to Israel.

I also brought challah dough to her school for her to be mehafrish. We had a shalosh seudos with her friends and our local family. She said a devar torah by the seudah and I made all sort of fancy food.

Smile she was celebrated and happy.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2012, 11:35 pm
shalhevet wrote:

I'm not saying there's anything wrong in doing an extra mitzva in honour of the occasion. My rant is against the idea of feeling a need that there MUST be some 'content' to an event which is joyous in itself. If someone feels they MUST add content, it seems they don't value the joy of a girl now having to daven, make brochos, do chessed and dress tzniusly every day of her life. And the extra mitzva shouldn't contradict the halachos or spirit of tznius. I certainly don't think there's anything wrong (and plenty right) with a girl taking challa or going to visit an old lady in an old age home or taking her neighbour's children to the park so the mother can rest or saying extra Tehillim or going to the kotel or visiting children in hospital etc. etc. in honour of her bat mitzva.


I'm still not sure if I understand. What better way is there to show joy over an obligation to fulfill mitzvos than by doing one? Why is making a party/seudah preferable to doing a large-scale act of chessed (which by no means has to violate any spirit of tznius)? Wouldn't the actual performance of a mitzvah show more how excited a girl is that she will now be obligated in that mitzvah + 612 others more than any amount of food, art activities, music or dancing?

Or to think about it differently: the only real new obligation that a bar mitzvah bachur has is to wear tefillin (plus, he has precedence for an aliya). Yet so many bar mitzvah bachurim choose to lein, make a siyum, (and/) or deliver a pshetl. Are those obligatory? No. Are they "added content"? No. They're a way of showing HKBH how excited he is over His Torah and mitzvos that are now his obligations.

Doing daily acts of chessed is wonderful. But there is something to be said for the impact that a "larger" act of chessed (whatever it is - it can be helping a mother, visiting someone in the nursing home, befriending a sick child - not necessarily big and splashy) has on a girl and the statement that it makes for her about her new role. If the bas mitzvah girl's mother can't spare her, or she has other commitments, that's fine, of course. It's not a chiyuv. But why knee-jerkedly turn down the idea just because it's done in MO circles?

And of course Jewish women have roles in the Jewish community. Every time that you make a meal for a woman who has just given birth, visited someone in the hospital, babysat someone's children, organize a tzedakah drive ... you are exercising your role as an adult in the Jewish community. Your obligations to your home may supersede your obligations to your community, but maybe that itself is a good reason for a (relatively unencumbered) 12 year old to give some thought to how to stretch herself beyond her own daled amos. Again, if her mother can't spare her, it's no chiyuv. But I can't see why it's a drawback.

Then again, I don't recall anyone saying that it's a MUST, just that it's a meaningful way to celebrate (arguably more meaningful than a party for friends). If someone did, and that is the sole point of contention, then we don't disagree.
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Sarah77




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 01 2015, 6:40 am
We made a Shabbat batmitzva for DD1. DH and all of DD's uncles davened and leined. After shul DD gave a dvar Torah and we sponsored the kiddush. DD loved it. DD's school has an excellent batmitzva program which involves learning, researching their own name and family history and fun activities like mother-daughter challah baking. She also learnt privately.

We also travelled to Israel as a family. DD is named for my aunt who perished in the Shoah. I took DD to Yad Vashem for the first time where she filled out and lodged a Page of Testimony for her great aunt. DD and I (as well as the lady at Yad Vashem!) found this to be a very emotional experience.

There is no formality required to mark a batmitzva. It's about doing something that is meaningful for your family, whether it's a small dinner at home with the family, a communal simcha or something that involves extra mitzvot, it doesn't matter. It's about parents taking the opportunity to make a statement to their daughter (and all their children) about their values at an important milestone in their daughters life.
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