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GRRR Neighbor vent!
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mommy3b2c




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 02 2015, 2:10 pm
amother wrote:
One of my children has ADHD and is on the spectrum plus I resisted medication. I also had a child in a painful brace and another with a painful tumor who had to be held 18 hrs a day or would scream. I did what I had to do which was hold my baby so she didn't scream and disturb the neighbors. The baby with the brace, I woke up periodically through every single night to adjust it and put dancer's cotton and cream on the skin lesions. I had a dying husband who was absolutely no help. If course it was like having additional children because he had to be taken care of like an infant. Does that change anything?

Children can learn boundaries. OP was venting about the neighbor who is not wrong to be upset with nightly door banging and screaming.


I am truly sorry for you and I hope your life gets easier.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jan 02 2015, 3:20 pm
Op here, thank you to all those who were supportive.

I don't know about legality of our situation it's kind of "ain breirah" right now--2bdrms are SOOO expensive where we live. Many of our frum neighbors also have similar situations and put up temporary walls, we opted not to go that route for a variety of reasons.

2ndly, this was the first time that I can recall that they reacted so strongly to the consequence. A little more background is that they had been away at my in-laws the night before so that my DH and I could get a little peace and quiet in anticipation of our new baby in the coming weeks, so it could be that they "missed me" the night before, and therefore reacted strongly to my walking away and closing my bedroom door. And they had only been screaming for a few minutes--5 perhaps, when she came a-knocking at my door. In general I haven't been a big subscriber to the "CIO" philosophy, but I had just sat with them for almost 2 hours!

3rd, My children cry and in many ways are very normal--and generally well-behaved. My 4 year-old has hit a very rough patch and has become very defiant in the past few days--he's also been on vacation from school which has made his schedule rather topsy turvy, and I had very calmly and clearly presented the conditions, counted to 10 and walked away. He also protests going to the bathroom and I have to "forcefully", I.e. pick him up and take him to the bathroom to which he protests--sometimes this is a bit of a time out until he can calm down, but I am with him the entire time.

Finally, I don't know WHY she assumed that we weren't home--we've gone out and left a neighbor to check on them ONCE (for an hour, we were a few blocks away, and it was a special circumstance done out of desperation) and that was a LONG time ago when they both slept well and we didn't have to worry about them waking up--they didn't.

I am rather overwhelmed since they were acting crazy before I took them to my in-laws, were crazy when I brought them home, and then they wouldn't go to sleep!. I don't think it's going to improve once the baby arrives and they get even MORE attention-starved (not to mention me disappearing for a few days). DH and I did discuss trying to separate their bedtimes, which I think is something to try--and usually the younger one goes to sleep rather quickly before the older one, but will be tricky to implement b/c there isnt really a place for the older one to go, and he likes when his brother is with him.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 02 2015, 3:35 pm
Well, that sure adds a lot of clarification! Less than 5 minutes = neighbors overreacted. Crazy situation with school vacation, upcoming baby, and coming back from a night away = normal on your end, though granted irritating to neighbors, but not a long-term thing. Rough patch with 4y/o = SIGH, growing pains.

Why can't older one go to your bedroom or the other side of the living room or something while younger one quickly falls asleep? Then maybe your ability to focus on the older one with little one sleeping might help him relax more. If he "likes" when his brother is with him but the result is that bedtime gets crazy, you might need to choose not to humor this particular like... but that's something you'll have to decide what works for you.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 11:57 am
OP do not ever ever ever leave children alone in the house. A neighbor checking on them leaves plenty of time for a fire to burn your house and children. Or for one of them to wake up and jump out the window looking for you
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sitting




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 12:30 pm
As long as u have two rooms which u do...a bedroom and a living room u can do sep bedtimes and it works much better. One in ea h room and one who's not being settled can read a book or watch on q fone or tablet for 10 min...it wont kill them. Then bedtime story and bed. I wld also put them to sleep in bedroom and move them providing they generally sleeep thru tge nite.
Instant rewards are imperative at this age so at breakfast....yes at breakfast a small treat foe whoever went to sleep nicely without calling or crying. I wad taught this by a child pyschologist and it works. Additionally u need one sentence u repeat at bedtime and when they act up ex "no calling o4 crying or no treat tomor. Just rest quietly"
Ive also learnt that u dont just say all the donts...don't call or cry or...but durinf the day discuss the dos. Wr do lie quietly in our bed and think nice things. We can think about purim or a bday party etc. Skills for how to fall asleep
Hope this helps. Hang in therw
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 7:03 pm
heidi wrote:
OP do not ever ever ever leave children alone in the house. A neighbor checking on them leaves plenty of time for a fire to burn your house and children. Or for one of them to wake up and jump out the window looking for you


OP here, like I said, it was a desperate situation when my older son slept well (I think my younger son was a baby and we took him with us). Our building is so small it's almost no different than being in downstairs in a house. We've done it for other neighbors.

Our kids don't really transfer well, as well as they were going through a phase of sleeping in our beds, and the recommendation I followed was don' t let them sleep in your bed or they will get used to it. I think just getting back into our "daily routine" will help--at least until the baby comes.

This neighbor just irks me, she did this once before when we were trying to sleep train my youger son and put his pack n' play in the hallway while we tried napping one Shabbos afternoon, and we had to let him cry for a little while. She doesn't believe in CIO at all apparently, and though I'm not a big fan, I was desperate enough to try it. All the while she kicks her husband out and there was one long stretch where we used to hear him SOBBING and cursing in Spanish, or banging on their door "WIILMA" style. (think the Flintstones). ONE time my kids start screaming at bedtime and she makes a big fuss!
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 7:14 pm
amother wrote:
There is a difference between normal control and abuse. It is not normal to allow your children to screech and bang on your bedroom door every night. You control them so your neighbor has peace immediately. You teach and train at your leisure. These kids obviously weren't taught and trained properly. I would not tolerate my children screeching and banging on my door and I am certainly not an abusive person. I tell my children that certain behaviors are unacceptable without hitting or screaming.

You clearly have easier children than op. Not all children are created equal or as easy to "train". Also, she mentioned this as a one time occurrence not an every night event.

Edited: If you're the amother with various sick children I'm sorry you have/had that but that doesn't necessarily mean they were harder to keep quiet. They were clearly more trainable. No parents want their kids to cry/shriek. In public I would say she should limit outings to detract disturbance to others but this is her home for crying out loud.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 7:30 pm
Talya wrote:
You clearly have easier children than op. Not all children are created equal or as easy to "train". Also, she mentioned this as a one time occurrence not an every night event.


I posted about my children and they were not easy. They were special needs with painful physical conditions and one is on the spectrum with ADHD. I was practically a single mom.

I don't like OP'S attitude towards her Spanish neighbors. She should be more respectful of them both IRL and posting about them here. She dismisses any responsibilities for disturbing them by blaming them it is the ol' 2 wrongs don't make a right.

OP left her children alone before so her neighbors' concern was reasonable. She is venting about her neighbors instead of focusing on the problem of what she should be doing. The posters with the suggestions about separating the kids at bedtime are on track.

BTW if she lives in NY, CPS is concerned if each child has their own bed rather than how many people in a room.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 8:06 pm
amother wrote:
I posted about my children and they were not easy. They were special needs with painful physical conditions and one is on the spectrum with ADHD. I was practically a single mom.

I don't like OP'S attitude towards her Spanish neighbors. She should be more respectful of them both IRL and posting about them here. She dismisses any responsibilities for disturbing them by blaming them it is the ol' 2 wrongs don't make a right.

OP left her children alone before so her neighbors' concern was reasonable. She is venting about her neighbors instead of focusing on the problem of what she should be doing. The posters with the suggestions about separating the kids at bedtime are on track.

BTW if she lives in NY, CPS is concerned if each child has their own bed rather than how many people in a room.


OP here, FTR I have NO problem with Spanish people. I've actually had several pleasant encounters with her husband--he often wishes us a "good Shabbos." Every time I see the wife, my skin crawls. After the one time we went out and on a different occaision she suspected we weren't home (when we were trying to CIO), we NEVER did it again. I know it can be a CPS issue.

On a positive note, my kids went to sleep nicely tonight. I think right now, it does work better to put them in together, but will consider separating their bedtimes should it become necessary in the future.

I know of a family, not Jewish, and as far as I can tell, though I havent' been in the bedroom, I think it's a family of 6 kids--from teenager to 2 yr olds, and they sleep in a 1 bdrm--at least I can't figure out where the 2nd bedroom is, but their couches in the living room are futons.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 8:19 pm
amother wrote:
OP here, FTR I have NO problem with Spanish people. I've actually had several pleasant encounters with her husband--he often wishes us a "good Shabbos." Every time I see the wife, my skin crawls. After the one time we went out and on a different occaision she suspected we weren't home (when we were trying to CIO), we NEVER did it again. I know it can be a CPS issue.

On a positive note, my kids went to sleep nicely tonight. I think right now, it does work better to put them in together, but will consider separating their bedtimes should it become necessary in the future.

I know of a family, not Jewish, and as far as I can tell, though I havent' been in the bedroom, I think it's a family of 6 kids--from teenager to 2 yr olds, and they sleep in a 1 bdrm--at least I can't figure out where the 2nd bedroom is, but their couches in the living room are futons.


There is never a reason to leave your kids home alone, yet you had an excuse for that time also. There is never an emergency or situation which justifies it. You make way too many excuses. Since somehow my life came into this thread, I never left my kids alone. When I had to rush my husband to the emergency room because there was no time for an ambulance, I took my toddlers. I can't imagine a situation more extreme than that one, yet I didn't leave my kids alone. What possible scenario could justify leaving them alone?

I also don't understand what the religion of the different families has to do with anything.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Jan 03 2015, 9:29 pm
OP here, in this situation it was hardly "leaving, alone" my neighbor was checking on him every few mins much like a babysitter, she just wasn't sitting in my apartment the whole time. It's different because in that situation if there were an emergency c"v, there was SOMEONE responsible for him, and we left very clear instructions about what to do if he woke up--which at the time he almost never did, he was also still in a crib so he wasn't going to be wandering around our apartment if he did. Our doors are less than 10ft away from each other so that if something was happening in one the other would know about it. I don't think these neighbors even knew about it.

Sorry for all the "excuses." Would you rather me say "I'm a horrible neglectful parent, take my kids away from me"??!!

My point about the religion was that in all areas of NY and with the multi-cultural nature of NYC, there are MANY families that squeeze a large number of people into 1 bdrm apartments, so if anyone would make an "legal" issue of our living quarters, it's not uncommon in this city.

To respond to the "2 wrongs" comment, we are generally careful about not making too much noise so as not to disturb our neighbors with our "paper-thin" walls. But, as a parent, to "coddle" a child's every wish so they don't cry to disturb the neighbors, I think is a bit a extreme to say that I was "wrong". It was barely 10pm, not 2am. It had been less than 5 minutes that she expressed her concern, not 10-15-20. As a parent I felt I needed to express to my children that Mommy cannot sit with you all night, she needs to go to her room. After sitting with them for almost 2 hours, especially when my 4 year-old was deliberately not complying with my directive, I felt the need to exit the room.

I REALLY don't know what the neighbor was referring to about "Every night"--especially when it couldn't have been the night before as my kids WEREN'T HOME. Generally speaking, my kids are well behaved, they're just going through a phase.

I feel like I will be walking on eggshells the next few months as my kids adjust to having a new sibling and are starting to annoy each other more and more, and we won't be able to move before the summer. HaShem help us!
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 04 2015, 12:26 am
No, OP, Hashem can't help you if you won't help yourself.
Leaving children alone in the house for any amount of time is gross negligence.
Letting a baby cio in the hallway is the most insensitive, rudest way to treat your neighbors.
Get yourself on bc and to some parenting classes asap.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 04 2015, 1:18 am
heidi wrote:
No, OP, Hashem can't help you if you won't help yourself.
Leaving children alone in the house for any amount of time is gross negligence.
Letting a baby cio in the hallway is the most insensitive, rudest way to treat your neighbors.
Get yourself on bc and to some parenting classes asap.


I'm not op but this is nasty.

I'm ok with her description of how she left her neighbor coming in every 10 minutes. (plus the fact that it was only once) If you're in your basement doing laundry and your kids are two flights up sleeping you wouldn't hear the fire either.

Also- she only has one bedroom, where should she have put the baby.
It may not be the nicest thing, but definitely not the "most insensitive, rudest way to treat your neighbors"

and the last line. Seriously rude.
give it up. that was not the point of this thread.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Jan 04 2015, 1:41 am
heidi wrote:
No, OP, Hashem can't help you if you won't help yourself.
Leaving children alone in the house for any amount of time is gross negligence.
Letting a baby cio in the hallway is the most insensitive, rudest way to treat your neighbors.
Get yourself on bc and to some parenting classes asap.


The CIO episode was in the middle of a Shabbos afternoon, the hallway was in our apartment not near their bedroom. Where else were we supposed to put him? Our older son was on the other side of the apartment in the livingroom and we didn't want him to wake up. What would parenting classes accomplish? It was our pediatrician who encouraged us to let him cry it out and we didn't want to do it to bother our neighbors, so we chose to do it during the afternoon when we thought it wouldn't bother them as much. Besides, you are referring to an incident that occurrred almost 2 years ago, when this lady obviously has issues. Her husband has to get into the building with a stick that he sticks through a crack in the window b/c she doesn't give him a key. He keeps his shoes and his coat in a closet in the lobby--and I'M the one with issues?!
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 04 2015, 1:57 am
It's hard living in NYC or any other city where housing is expensive and people live on top of each other.

when I grew up there was plenty of noise and screaming but we were in a private house so at least we didn't have to worry about neighbors overhearing.

Here it's a constant source of anxiety.

I think neighbors need to meet each other halfway. Yes, do your best to keep your kids quiet (CIO may not be the best approach if you're in a crowded apartment situation) but on the other hand try not to hear what goes on by your neighbors. It goes both ways.

People need to live their lives.
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